Should TTW start in Vault 101 only?

Post by **thermador** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:38 am

Chucksteel asked me to create this thread to get some input from people.

Right now it's difficult to create travel/chargen mods without knowing if there is going to eventually be either:

A startup menu built into TTW that asks the player where they want to start, like in RickerHK's TTW Startup Menus.

OR

TTW only allows the player to start in Vault 101, and the New Vegas character generation would be disabled. Other startup mods may be created that modify the startup location / chargen and would be separate.

This is something that should eventually be decided so that we know what the goals of the project are and can plan and design travel mods and bugfix the main project accordingly.

---

Personally, I think RickerHK's TTW Startup Menus should be integrated into the main project. What about you?

Post by **JaxFirehart** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:32 am

From a design and storytelling perspective, starting in Vault 101 really is the easiest for us to incorporate. The lone wanderer grows up in a vault, escapes, and then does stuff in DC, at some point he finds his way west spends some time in the Divide, accidentally blows it up, gets the platinum chip, shot in the head and forgets everything that happened between heading east and getting shot. The only plot holes in that scenario is that FO3 and FNV take place only 4 years apart and I, personally, got the sense that the courier spent longer than that in the Divide. Because they designed FNV in such a way that your backstory is yours to invent, this works perfectly.

If you start in NV and head to DC, there are a lot of plot holes to cover. Three Dog refers to you as the kid from vault 101 repeatedly. Who is Dad and why are you suddenly looking for him. The quest Trouble on the Homefront can NEVER be done because the courier doesn't remember growing up in, or escaping from, V101, so doesn't remember Amata's name. With the way everyone introduces themselves, it implies that the courier must have crawled out of V101, ignored the whole missing dad thing, and went west straight off.

It is easy to implement a start menu, but hard to really bind the two wastelands together properly if you choose to start in NV.

Post by **chucksteel** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:35 am

RickerHK's start menu still works just fine. I tested it and, was able to select which wasteland I wanted to start in without issue.

Post by **thermador** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:33 am

[quote=JaxFirehart]

If you start in NV and head to DC, there are a lot of plot holes to cover. Three Dog refers to you as the kid from vault 101 repeatedly. Who is Dad and why are you suddenly looking for him. The quest Trouble on the Homefront can NEVER be done because the courier doesn't remember growing up in, or escaping from, V101, so doesn't remember Amata's name. With the way everyone introduces themselves, it implies that the courier must have crawled out of V101, ignored the whole missing dad thing, and went west straight off.

It is easy to implement a start menu, but hard to really bind the two wastelands together properly if you choose to start in NV.

[/quote]

I dunno, I think I covered all of those issues with a very simple (probably too simple heh) backstory in my 'proof of concept' mod (and it's easy to change too).

http://www.taleoftwowastelands.com/content/rel-alpha-ttw-starting-new-vegas

Obviously most people (including myself) are going to want to start out in Vault 101 because we like our stories linear. But some people are either 'Memento' type thinkers, or, more importantly, going to want to use an existing NV character that they know and love to play through all of the Fallout 3 stories.

Edit: ack my phone keeps breaking the text formatting :-(

Post by **Blade** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:49 am

I would suggest planning as if most people will start in DC and any story tweaks applied as if that was the expected start, but still make provisions for people to start in NV if they so choose and just make some method of starting the main DC story line even though it really doesn't make sense for it to happen that way. That way people can play it however they want and make up whatever explanations themselves.

Post by **siko** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:42 pm

Starting in the vault definitely makes the most sense. It also adds a more personal feel to the game. I don't even see the reason for having an option, its just that much more work.

Post by **Quetzlsacatanango** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:22 pm

Give it a menu.

I think most players who use TTW understand that if you start in Vegas there will be some things they have to overlook, plot-wise, and live with it.

Post by **JaxFirehart** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:12 pm

Well after reading what everyone had to say (and looking over Thermador's alt start method) I think we should implement a menu with a disclaimer saying that starting in NV is supported but not recommended.

Thoughts?

Post by **Quetzlsacatanango** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:29 pm

How would a (presumably integrated) menu affect alternate start mods? What I am getting at is that it might not be a great idea to even give a menu.

Default would be New Vegas Start.

Optional Plugin for v101 start like we have now.

Other alternate start plugins to start in different places if a user chooses (like I do :))

Post by **chucksteel** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:16 pm

that's not a bad idea, We could also include RickerHK's Start menue and, another optional file.