Big Guns

[RoyBatty]

Our resident magician jazzisparis has made it possible for us to restore the Big Guns skill. It would be an addition and no skill would be lost or replaced as it's still in the game, just disabled. We would like to hear your opinions about including it by default in TTW or if it should be optional.

We'd also like to know what you think about the potential list of weapons that would be restored to use the skill, and a few that could be changed to use it.

Since this change could be highly controversial we really want to know what our users and members think about such a change. Please take a few minutes to give us your thoughts.

[collapsed title=Big Guns]

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  - Automatic Rifle (based on the M1918 Browning MG)


• 
  - Light Machine Gun


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  - Minigun (duh)


• 
  - Eugene


• 
  - CZ57 Avenger


• 
  - K9000 Cyberdog Gun


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  - FIDO


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  - Shoulder Mounted MG


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  - Flamer


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  - Burnmaster


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  - Rapid Torch Flamer


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  - Slo-Burn Flamer


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  - Cleansing Flame


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  - Incinerator


• 
  - Heavy Incinerator


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  - Gatling Laser


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  - Fawkes Gatling Laser


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  - Precision Gatling Laser


• 
  - Vengeance


• 
  - Sprtel-Wood 9700


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  - Plasma Caster


• 
  - Smitty Special


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  - Tesla Cannon


• 
  - Tesla Cannon Prototype


• 
  - Elijah's Jury Rigged Tesla Cannon


• 
  - Tesla-Beaton Prototype


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  - Drone Cannon


• 
  - Drone Cannon ExB


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  - Grenade Machinegun


• 
  - Mercy


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  - Missile Launcher


• 
  - Miss Launcher


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  - Annabelle


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  - Fat Man


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  - Fat Man (GRA)


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  - Esther


• 
  - MIRV


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  - Red Glare


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  - Bozar


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  - Anti-Material Rifle


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  - Anti-Material Rifle (GRA)


• 
  - Arc Welder


• 
  - Rock-It Launcher

[/collapsed]

Compatibility with existing mods is not an issue. Since those mods would not be altered, they would still function exactly the same as they do now. In terms of NV weapons that would be changed to the skill, this is easily reverted by making a single change (the skill) to the weapon record. Fears of massive incompatibilities are nothing to worry about as the addition would be nearly transparent.

[UnDeadPuff]

I'm up for it, even if it requires bit more work for patches.

[snarfies]

I'd say make it an optional, but I'd be okay with it being non-optional.

Also, please release TTW 3.

[jlf65]

I'm all for it! I missed having Big Guns as a skill in New Vegas... getting a mini-gun in FO3 at an early level was FUN! You couldn't hit the broad side of a barn until you put some points into Big Guns... and maybe a few points into Strength. Ditto for the missile launcher.

[RoyBatty]

I'm not making any plans yay or nay for now. I honestly didn't expect it to be done so quickly. I want to know what the community thinks about it very much, please keep the comments coming. :D

[pintocat]

I think the strength requirement makes the separate skill superfluous -- the big guns perk can use a formlist instead of skill type. It doesn't really add anything IMO, there is already energy/kinetic split, and logically it doesn't make much sense that a very large energy and very large kinetic weapon would suddenly be the same while small energy and small kinetic are separate skills.

[TAWM]

Make the Big Guns skills a default part of TTW.  It's already easy to hit 100 in every skill playing the game and not deliberately gimping yourself.  If you add Big Guns skill back to TTW it would make it harder to hit 100 in every skill so that is an automatic plus in my book. 

That and quite frankly weapons like the flamer being energy weapons never really made sense.  Flame throwers aren't exactly high tech sci-fi weapons like plasma rifles.  While the Big Guns skill doesn't make a lot of sense neither does the way weapons are grouped in New Vegas either.  So I would rather just have the Big Guns skill return. 

I would also like to add that I'm really a Fallout 3 player that uses TTW since it adds a ton of features, the mods for New Vegas are more polished and I like to play the 3 DLCs Old World Blues, Lonesome Road and Dead Money.  I really don't care much for the New Vegas base game so an addition to TTW that makes it more like Fallout 3 (looking forward to Fallout 3 repair in next TTW release) is a win in my book...although others on here I'm sure don't share my opinion.        

[Lyndi]

I vote for optional so those who want to give it a go (me!) would be able to play it that way while others could keep playing with the base FNV skillset.

As far as what weapons to include in Big Guns, I'd go with anything ballistic. Leave the Fatman and Missile Launchers in Explosives and Gatling Laser and such in Energy Weapons. The Bozar, LMG, Minigun and things like that could be moved into Big Guns. The flamer, well, it doesn't really fit anywhere so it could move into Big Guns too I suppose.

[H1ms3lf]

Having more depth is usually best but in this case...

The amount of work it would take to properly (retro)fit+(re)balance+consistency (logic, immersion, lore, extra mods outside TTW) to commit this change into becoming a real improvement and not just "ill planned depth", I honestly think this will never be fully accomplished, so the time is better spent elsewhere.



(But then, I still think Melee Weapons should integrate Unarmed so both are merged into 1 skill, goes to show that pleasing everybodys taste is impossible.)

[H1ms3lf]

Anyway, if you guys still wanna commit to this, my 2 cents:



- STR requirements still in place (or apply a case by case % slow effect based on how much STR is missing).

- Have each "big gun weapon" to belong into 2 different skills (big gun + either explosives or energy or guns).

- Dunno if this is needed: To measure a players REAL proficiency with these weapons, sum its two skills and halve the value. So in a way, player has to increase any of that weapon skills by 2 points at a time, to actually get a base 1 point of real increase (afterall it must get to 200 points, 100 in each skill, to use it a 100% efficiency).



These "dual-skilled" weapons gotta be somewhat IMBA and more powerful than one-skill weapons (kinda makes sense because certain weapons are just that badass, talking real life here), to compensate it taking longer to acquire 100%. Be it range, spread, aim, damage, reload, ease-of-use, combinations of these categories, whatever.



PS: Change name from 'Big Guns' to 'Big Weapons', so that when someone (maybe me ^^) finally gets Unarmed to be "absorbed" by Melee Weapons, the big Melee Weapons can also use Big Weapons category as a badassery increasing parameter.