CROSS-CONTENT DISCUSSION: Remove .32 Ammo

[The 3rd Type]

Maybe make a shitt(ier) Hunting Rifle model that uses .32 or make the .308 vanilla model more pristine?

[eamon360]

[quote=JaxFirehart]

Couple things: I already plan on toning down the vault 101 weapons and armor. Probably 9mm pistol and ammo. I need to come up with some way of weakening the armor, thing is, vault 101 security armor is practically the same as vault 34 security armor. That is one of the most porminent balance flaws in TTW, without modification, by the time you exit vault 101 you have an excellent early weapon and armor that is viable mid to late game. I'm getting off topic here...

[/quote]

The vault 101 security armor has the same DT as regular leather armor, which is pretty easy to find. Plus, if people have courier's stash installed, they can get superior equipment from there. I don't personally, for balance reasons, and by the time people reach the mall, they can get combat armor from the shop in the museum of history. I agree with implementing the 9mm pistol though. Evil characters can also raid megaton before blowing it up and get a chinese assault rifle from quite near the start, and good characters can raid Tenpenny Tower and get a whole range of armour and weapons.

I should probably stop rambling now haha. In conclusion, i believe starting equipment isn't really a big issue, and apologies for my comment being off topic for this particular thread.

[Fallout10mm]

 

I say replace the .32 version of the hunting rifle with This: 

Its a .22lr pump action.  Low level ammo, low damage, gives the player a use for ammo that they'd normaly ignore.

[Cataca]

I really hope that the silly 32. hunting rifle will not be re-implemented in DC. It was a MAJOR ballance breaker and overpowered as hell.

1. The ammo was overabundant, every 3rd raider was using a 32. revolver, every second supermutant was using a hunting rifle, you never ran out, and i dont remember a single instance of fallout 3 where i had to actually BUY that ammo. 

2. High enough damage to one-hit KO with sneak criticals, high enough accuracy to pull them off consistently, high enough dps to kill before you were reached if you could not. (ie. why use any other weapon at all, if you are not literally swarmed by baddies)

3. Available from the get-go, feasable to the end, there shouldnt be ANY weapon like that. ever.

Iconic or not, the game ballance was rubbish i really hope that the dc hunting rifle dies in a fire.

I also *really* like the idea to keep the weapon/ammo pool from dc/nv the same / as identical as possible to maintain the easy modability. As others have suggested, there is a mod that'll make vermint rifles use 22lr, by keeping vermint rifles in the low level raider lists, you can practically mod your own "dc hunting rifle" as it was, without getting your endgame rifle when the game begins. 

[Cataca]

I think its more about .22lr being a totally useless ammo and realistically varmint rifles would use that, instead of nato rounds.

I also think that the mod shouldn't change that itself, but instead enable the player to use a mod that changes that if they so wish. It'd be healthier for the project to keep at the basic balance NV introduced with weapons, instead of making two tiers of weapons with leveled lists you'd only see once, depending on where you start.

While we're at it, i think that new vegas did much better on the balance than fo3 did, and playing through fo3 again now, with raiders wielding crap weapons and me heaving to constantly switch through *all* my weapons because im so ammo starved is much more fun than the vanilla experience.  (playing with project nevada further enhances this by drastically reducing loot)

[Shadow]

I wouldn't be worried about things being too weak, though raiders are pretty weak.  I'm more worried about how everything in Point Lookout can seem to kill me in just a few shots when I have a DT of 40.  I think we might want to tone down those shotguns or something.

[Befo]

So I have read most of this thread (and noticed there were a few new posts, so I hope I am not necroing this discussion), but I don't seem to get the gist of it. 



I thought the purpose of TTW was not to change FO3 or FNV but to make them work together, and bring the FNV enhancements to FO3. Removing/altering a weapon ammo for balance or because certain people don't like it seems to me like it is more in the realm of a TTW addon mod rather than something that should be in the core mod. It also may turn people off who are looking into TTW and want as much of a vanilla experience as possible. Another concern is that certain modders may use the .32 round (for whatever reason) or make modificatins to the Hunting Rifle or .32 Pistol. By removing the round entirely, how will that affect those mods and their intended effects? It is my understanding that we want maximum compatibility with existing mods with TTW, so this seems kind of counter-productive. (I do understand the need for change with Shotgun Shells, but not for this one, sorry.)



My personal view, aside from the reasons I mentioned above, is that the .32 round should remain and the Hunting Rifle and .32 Pistol should remain ingame unchanged. To me, both weapons are iconic FO3 guns, with many memories of a nice, perfectly timed long distance headshot with my Hunting Rifle, or a Raider holding a .32 Pistol in my face, blasting away. If changes need to be made, they can be made my addon mods for TTW so that those who like the guns can have them in vanilla, and those that want them changed can use the extra mod. 



My two cents...



 

[TJ]

[quote=Befo] If changes need to be made, they can be made my addon mods for TTW so that those who like the guns can have them in vanilla, and those that want them changed can use the extra mod. 

[/quote]

Or it gets left how it is and anyone who wants these guns vanilla can slap in any FO3 mod that edits these items and bam! reverted to stock FO3 settings.

[JaxFirehart]

I explained it once before, implementing a special .32 Hunting Rifle would require putting in a whole new weapon. The FO3 hunting rifle and the FNV hunting rifle are mostly identical. The aesthetic for both FO3 and FNV is that they do not have multiple weapons that look the same but have different calibers. So we would have to make the .32 hunting rifle look different. Of course we couldn't call it ".32 Hunting Rifle" because that just sounds lame, so we gotta come up with a new name. Now, we have a gun that doesn't look like the hunting rifle and isn't named hunting rifle, so its a BRAND NEW weapon.

Or we accept the NV change that states that the hunting rifle is a .308 and then we are stuck with having only one weapon in the whole game that is .32 which, once again, is not done in either FO3 or FNV (alien power cells being a justifiable exception) so we have to make it use a new caliber. It's a no-win problem and I felt that removing .32 was the best solution. The hunting rifle and .32 pistol from fallout 3 are still present.

[TJ]

Seems like you guys have to explain yourselves a lot when nobody listens most of the time. How many times has the load order been explained? Or like now: "I've read this whole thread and even though JaxFirehart's first post in this thread explains clearly and consisely exactly what is written in the post above this one, I think being confused about which Hunting Rifle I should fire is the way to go. All your hard work to make this mod perfect should go in an add-on mod for your add-on mod."

To anybody that doesn't like how TTW is coming together I say this: Change it. The tools are there and you have no less ability (in most cases) to learn than the guys making this happen.