CROSS-CONTENT DISCUSSION: Main Quest

[JaxFirehart]

I'm not saying we won't improve upon it, if you can give some constructive suggestions. I will not let all of that work go for naught. To me, the fact that you black out and don't remember anything that happens in the four years between boarding the train and getting shot allows for the player to make up whatever story they wish to happen between the two. If buying the ticket is your problem, I agree its too easy and doesn't really make any sense, but that is easy to remedy once we decide on a method to do so. Off the top of my head, you could discover the train station and find the train in generally working order, but you are required to repair it, creating a quest that requires you to scour the wasteland for replacement parts.

As for ignoring the train and coc-ing everywhere, how is that more immersive than to actually use the damn train ;)

[Ein]

I'm just really extremely picky when it comes to thing that touch upon lore. And a train is such a big thing... It's not like, a car or a truck where you could reasonably say "okay I worked hard and I got this thing only I have, and it's special" with more flexibility in terms of the "how" of traveling trains are huge things that run specific courses that require an industry to keep running.

This isn't perhaps constructive criticism, in fact I know it's not. I'm just nit picking, especially given the fact that traveling to New Vegas from DC or the other way around isn't exactly a major plot point. It just creates little conflicts that normally you probably wouldn't notice, especially because a lot of them already exist. Kind of like playing an FPS game and never noticing the tires on the cars use really low res textures.

cocing isn't really more immersive, it's just less... Touristy. And I can come up with my own explination as to how I got there. Or I could just be not-lazy and make my own travel mod. It's not that difficult to rig something basic up. At any rate, I wouldn't want you to let any work go to waste. That would be counter to everything, and I rather like being optomistic about this mod.

[JaxFirehart]

Well I'm a bit of a lore hound myself and I try to just ignore the fact that the train doesn't make much sense. I did some research on track maintenence and, it appears, that trains can go over just about anything, long as the tracks are the proper distant apart. The problem comes from speed. Poorly maintained tracks must be traversed slowly in order to avoid incident.

Not trying to convince you, I agree the train isn't the best solution, fact is its the easiest at the moment. In time you will have a host of methods to choose from, I'd bet my left testi on it.

[Darkersun]

About the different travel methods:

I think the train would be not so lorebraking if there would be an explanation on how it is still intact.

It is fallout, so it could be like robots clearing or building a special train tunnel for some reason.

Maybe its enough to find a note or add some NPC/Robots that maintaining the train.

Or the train is not going all the why to NV only half way and the rest by carawan to an NCR trainstation.

I just don't like the fact that there is a train with a ticket system, but nobody working on it.

Maybe just finding a note that it is an automatic system that keep the train operational would be enough.

[darthbdaman]

I really like this method of travel, fairly lore-friendly (sorta): Requiem for the Capital Wasteland Outcast Travel Point

I mostly like it because its very easy and makes some sense. It's a lot better than a man hole.

My big problem with the train is that I highly doubt there is enough track left to take one (even three or four) train rides to the other side of the country. A Vertibird can refuel almost everywhere (siphoning), and doesn't depend on destroyed infrastructure. Plus, the Vertibird stopping for fuel can be used for additional encounters along the way.

[JaxFirehart]

I like your thinking on everything, I agree with all of it. We ARE going to ADD content to FNV if/where it is appropriate, we will NOT change anything unless it is absolutely necessary. So please, if you have any ideas on how to get from NV to DC shout them out.

[Trm8r]

Hello everyone. First I want to thank you for this great mod. I had a idea about the travel method between the two wastelands.

I want to preface this by saying I'm biased towards starting in the Mohave. I use Arwens mod and it doesn't kick in until you leave Doc Mitchells place. Why couldn't Doc help us "regain our memories" of the Capital Wasteland.  We could select at what age we want to start, I rarely want to do all of vault 101, and a "wake me from this nightmare" option to return to Doc's place.

Well shoot, as I write this it seems obvious that equipment and stuffs aren't going to transfer very well. I guess I'll vote for a vertibird or caravan as transport, they can transport a few people but not an army.

[LT Albrecht]

I think perhaps yes, in the merged version make the stories run sequentially. However, have a menu otion upon starting vegas that asks "Is the courier the lone wanderer?" and carries your character across (skipping the facegen/special etc slection stuff Doc Mitchell asks you) if you say they are, or not if you don't. I always figured the Courier and Wanderer were different people, what with crossing the whole of post-nuclear America, not having a pipboy and so forth, but I can see how it'd be easy enough to link the stories and would make sense if they were linked into one game like TTW.

[Zatsuya]

warning potential tl;dr ahead

I have only done rudimentary mods for my own use and am in no way a designer, but I am good an analyzing situations and making narratives and connections.

From my stand point there are a few questions that need to be asked.

First, in terms of sequence, NV takes place long after Fo3 so any arguments in terms of continuity or lore need to be placed on the side if it is decided that we want individuals to be able to move freely from one zone to the other.

If we forgo this, time become an issue. With Dead money, how many coins will an individual be earning simply by moving back and forth? If its anything but high speed travel it could be potentially a cheat system.

further if individuals can move freely, what is happening in each area over the vast swaths of time the courier/lone wander is moving about.

Given these time components, I find it hard to agree with anything except a teleport. however this necessitates both a DC start and having completed mothership zeta.

I see a few viable options, the courier is a descendent of the lone wanderer, and in a very Assassins creed fashion, DC takes place in dreams.

This would solve temporal issues, but raises issues of equipment.

Thus, dreams are not good.

The teleport has issues.

The vertibird has the same problem as the zeta option.

The train takes to long. And we have exhausted ideas.

 

Thus I have a recommendation.

A Dc start with a quest to become a courier. This quest can be engaged any time between leaving the vault and the first encounter with your dad and after the retaking of project purity. This solve means and time. The most that would be added would be a DC express branch that offers a high paying and tantalizing job. Bring this chip out west and link up with the Mojave express. Once accepted New Vegas can begin. Now as for the return trip. We can implement the train. It will just require a bit of addition. For those of you that know what COG is skip below. COG stands for Continuity of Government and is a current government program by which parts of the US are designated as alternative operation centers for peace time facilities. One of these Facilities is Raven rock :) yes folks Raven rock is the alternative site for the department of defense in the event of full-scale war. The one closes to the Mojave is Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado.

Now with that explained, I see two options. First we can incorporate the dog city idea, and use the explanation of COG to link the pentagon and/or Raven Rock to Colorado and then through a train or Dog city to the Mojave. Or using the hand wave of story telling, explain that it was also connected to somewhere in the Mojave area.

What was doing the connection? An underground railroad. Though currently in the realm of conspiracy theory, the idea of an underground transcontinental railway could easily be passed as lore friendly, given that that the system was designed to withstand a nuclear war, we can say that the facilities are still intact and the only remaining problem is time and propulsion.

Mode of movement can be hand waved as well, (underground nuclear power plant) (cold fusion) (fuel depots) (geothermal) (tesla tech) sky is the limit really. In terms of time, if its underground there will be no obstacles and three day transcontinental freight is far from unheard of. And this would also solve our time problem.

Lastly cog was implemented in the early 50’s and the latest day of timeline divergence is early 60’s so in terms of lore this also is functional.

Sorry for the Tl;dr, but hopefully it will spark ideas.

 

edit: also, if need be, the common wealth can be used for hand waving and/or a source of deus ex machina.

[thermador]

[quote=Zatsuya]

First, in terms of sequence, NV takes place long after Fo3 so any arguments in terms of continuity or lore need to be placed on the side if it is decided that we want individuals to be able to move freely from one zone to the other.

[/quote]

Is three years "long after"?  Fallout 3 takes place in 2277-2278.  Fallout New Vegas takes place in 2281-2282.  See: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2277

So only a couple years apart.

[quote=Zatsuya]

If we forgo this, time become an issue. With Dead money, how many coins will an individual be earning simply by moving back and forth? If its anything but high speed travel it could be potentially a cheat system.

[/quote]

Dead Money generates 100 chips every three days (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Abandoned_BoS_Bunker#Notes).  So moving back and forth wouldn't get you much.  It would be more efficient just to keep "waiting" over and over at the bunker.  The cost of the vending machine rewards are detailed here: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Sierra_Madre_vending_machine

I really don't see this as a problem.  If time passes, so what?  That is the game, as she is played.  The player is earning money on his/her significant time investment in beating Dead Money and collecting all those holotapes for the vending machine.

[quote=Zatsuya]

further if individuals can move freely, what is happening in each area over the vast swaths of time the courier/lone wander is moving about.

[/quote]

Las Vegas to DC is 2400-2500 miles depending on route.  There really aren't "vast swaths of time" going by during transport.  Monsters and loot will respawn, that's about it.

Teleport: instant

Vertibird: less than a day assuming no long stops.  You can fly from Vegas to DC in six to seven hours with one layover (Orbitz.com).

Train: less than a day assuming no long stops.  You can take a train from Vegas to DC in 17-23 hours depending on the route (Amtrak.com).

Car or vehicle: two days to two months depending on speed.  You can take a bus from Vegas to DC in about 2.5 days (Greyhound.com).  You can drive a car from Vegas to DC in about the same (personal experience).  Google maps says 39 hours, but that's nonstop.  Assuming that's at 70 mph, and you factor in 12 hours a day driving, then (39 * 8) = 312 hours = 13 days at a (70/4)=17.5 MPH average speed driving 12 hours a day.  Even at a 4.3 MPH average speed (driving a tank or snowcat or something lol) driving 12 hours per day, it would be 52 days to drive it.

Walking: 125 to 250 days.  The Oregon Trail was about 2000 miles, and travelers averaged about 15 miles per day, most of it walking alongside the wagons.  So walking from DC to Vegas would be 2500/15 = 166 days.  Even at 10 miles per day, it would be 2500/10 = 250 days.  Since that Oregon Trail number includes going across the Rockies, it may be artificially low - you don't have to cross the Rocky Mountains to get from Vegas to DC. I have personally covered 20 miles in one day while hiking in rough terrain carrying gear.  Assuming you had power armor to help with the load, it is reasonable to assume that 20 miles a day would be possible = 125 days to make the journey.