Playing with Continuity

[TrickyVein]

wfpeterson can do whatever he likes to modify things the way he wants them to be. That's no skin off my back.

For me, Fallout is primarily story-driven and all games (mostly) follow a strong narrative. I think the OP would agree with me. It is not enough to satisfy this narrative, therefore if TTW is going to be successful in uniting the player's experiences as both the LW and The Courier that complete freedom be given to the player in traveling back and forth between the two wastelands. I think we can all agree on this point. 

I want to explain further, because what TTW does in synthesizing the story-driven content of both games is really in effect to create a new game. In Fallout 3, you don't complain that content from Broken Steel is accessible only after the main questline is completed; it's how the game is played. By the same token, if in TTW you aren't able to travel to NV until certain time-sensitive issues in the capitol wasteland are resolved (which have been discussed), you shouldn't really complain either. It's how the game is structured. 

If you don't care about narrative and want to play Fallout because of VATS and explosions, then fine. If instead you disregard the intent of TTW, if in effect you continue to insist on looking at Fallout 3 and Fallout NV as separate games, then it's easy to understand why you should think that the player should be allowed to travel between the two wastelands without restriction. The narrative is already cocked-up between them and so what does it matter if a train ride comes in between any of the main plot points of Fallout 3. 

As an aside, it's interesting that this same confusion over what TTW is and what it does has led to some questions in the past regarding which game should be launched after installation and which data directory should be used in order to okay it.

[paragonskeep]

I agree with Tricky.

Personally, I have no problem with the restrictive travel aspects (needing BS done, or Zeta). I agree with the aspect though of possibly allowing early travel with the repercussions of failed quests (the rangers are all dead now and Reilly is hunting you) But ultimately this is a mod made by gamers for gamers and we need to respect their decisions and thank them for their time. AND BE PATIENT. Chuck, Jax, and crew have all said once stable game play then continuity aspects would be addressed and implemented. I am very grateful that these guys are putting in all their time, effort, and hard work into a game franchise we all love. So respect that. Ideas are fine, demands are not.

Sorry if I went off track, and thank you to all the TTW team for your efforts.

[LT Albrecht]

If I spouted reassuring lines about how we were going to sweep in tomorrow with a fully voiced 30 hour quest mod that filled the gap you'd all call bullshit and start shooting at my eyebots, just like people do to Enclave radio. And for good reason, massive tasks do not happen overnight. TTW itself is on the scale of a DLC - and not the couriers' bloody stash -, the amount of work it's taken to get this far is impressive. Much is owed to Jax, chuck, Tricky and all the others who've contributed their time and knowledge to TTW.

When that's done? Well at that point in the future, maybe some of those keen minds and free hours will go on to this. It's often remarked in the private chat that as a group the TTW team has the means to  make something like that - usually as a preamble to a joke about us all being crazy - and maybe at some point efforts will be turned that way. Ideas occasionally get tossed around regarding it and there's no lack of know-how. So, if your desired outcome is that this comes to pass here's what you can do:

• 
  Report/confirm reported bugs found in TTW releases (check your mods don't cause it, you'd be surprised what kind of inadvertent changes M4 carbine mod #3157 or 'stimpaks heal 1 extra HP' mod can contain).


• 
  Be polite and reasonable. I'm not asking you to be a cheerleader or beacon of morality, but seeing someone in chat that's happy occasionally is far better than seeing someone spewing cursewords because their TTW install didn't go right. Helping someone level-headed is far easier than helping someone worked up.


• 
  Keep following TTW. Knowing there are people that genuinely appreciate what you're doing is a great motivator.

Pep talk over. Dismissed!

[CourierSix]

To be honest, considering the amount of time that's gone between the release of these two games, I'd be up for devs restricting when we can do things. I'm not sure I like the idea of failing quests that I don't (ingame) know about yet (who's to say O'Reillys Rangers don't get stuck on the roof after I get back?), but restricting it until after the BoS can finally exterminate the Enclave and drive them from the rail system isn't a bad idea. I can see where some people might be annoyed, but for the most part I trust TTW to make it truly a tale of two wastelands, and to damn with not being allowed do whatever the hell you like.

[freakydoo]

oddly enough i just ran into an issue with union station being boarded up, and although it turned out to be user error (that what i  get for trying to look under the hood of something i dont fully understand), and i thought maybe this was by design and that maybe certain criteria had to be met before i could travel to NV which wouldn't have bothered me. i'm all for keeping the storyline strong and in tact.

my two cent, keep things as is for the moment with an in game note telling players in the beta or final version that access to NV will be restricted to the pc meeting certain criteria. as a player who gets that this is a WIP i enjoy seeing the process. i went to NV soley to see the transition process you had in place then went back to a previous save from there i plan to finish many quests in DC before going to NV simply so the story line works and to enjoy FO3 on an updated engine. your not going to please everyone with this some people will complain about continuity while others will complain about restricted access.

in short i suggest keeping access unrestricted till much further on in development for people like me who just wanna see how it might look with clearly defined in game notes regarding the future so people dont bug you contently with questions/suggestions. then when your ready, (maybe in a beta version) restrict access till the proper criteria the you deem keeps the story line in tact has been met.

regardless where the team decides to go with the story line this is an amazing mod. thank you so much for this. bethesda really should be thanking you guys. i lost my cd for FO3 a while back and only purchased a new copy because i wanted to try this mod out so bad. i have not been disappointed! :)

edit: i'm sure this has been discussed and there are many who wont like this at all. personally i'd like to start NV with the bare minimum of stuff. this would help to offset the level advancement especially if all you start with is a few caps, vault 21 suit and a .22 amd a few rounds, plus the equipment and caps sunny gives you. i know that's not your original starting equipment but by now your level 25ish, you'll make do. along those lines i suggest a note/map be placed with benny that shows where you use to live (surely after nine years you've found some place to live, right?) and that is where you store the equipment you had on you when you left DC. it would also be nice if there were a karma penalty for swiping doc mitchells stuff.

[chucksteel]

[quote=freakydoo]

edit: i'm sure this has been discussed and there are many who wont like this at all. personally i'd like to start NV with the bare minimum of stuff. this would help to offset the level advancement especially if all you start with is a few caps, vault 21 suit and a .22 amd a few rounds, plus the equipment and caps sunny gives you. i know that's not your original starting equipment but by now your level 25ish, you'll make do. along those lines i suggest a note/map be placed with benny that shows where you use to live (surely after nine years you've found some place to live, right?) and that is where you store the equipment you had on you when you left DC. it would also be nice if there were a karma penalty for swiping doc mitchells stuff.

[/quote]

You might like this mod then Equipment Looted when first arrive New Vegas. When you first get to NV and see the cut scene with the powder gangers and benny the powder gangers take all your equipment. It has options on how hardcore you want it or to keep your loot. 

[freakydoo]

sweet chuck thank for pointing me in this direction!

[darthbdaman]

Just thought of something and wanted to share.

I think that beating the main quest and the wasteland survival guide should be requirements for travel. The story of Fallout 3 is irrevocably damaged if you leave half way through fixing project purity.

I also think that trouble on the home front should be a requirement. I think it would give the Lone Wanderer a valid reason to leave. With James dead and no home left they could reasonably leave after dealing with the purifier situation. This could a least give some reason for the wanderer to leave.

I think the Brotherhood of Steel should have control of the train, and be repairing it. You receive a note from one of the scribes upon completing the main quest that the Brotherhood has been repairing the train for travel west. With nothing left to do in D.C., they hop on the train and move west. You then promptly awaken in Doc Mitchell's house 3 years later.

Yes 3. We can assume that the date has been rounded a bit because it must have taken the Lone Wanderer a bit of time to do Fallout 3's main quest. The date can then be forwarded to the New Vegas start date. This clears up the cutscene issue. I personally see no evidence besides, one joke about 18 year old kids, and the divide. Personally I don't think the Divide is an issue. It could reasonably have taken place within the last 3 years. Also, every comment about being in places like New Reno would not be unusual for a courier. They would have been all sorts of places. The date should be 2281 in Vegas. I think we should be adapting our stories to the original games, not the other way around.

Also, I think that Broken Steel's quests should not be opened up until after you have traveled to the Mojave and tracked down Benny. Broken Steel always felt like more of a clean up the Enclave mission, which I think makes more sense a few years after the purifier. The Brotherhood (Star Paladin Cross?) tracks you down and sends you a message that they have found the base of operations of the Enclave and need your help defeating them. You can then go of and do Broken Steel, as a side mission rather than the end of the main quest.

Anyone have any suggestion or feedback. I think this does solve the problem of the Lone Wanderer leaving (at least partially) and of having to play Broken Steel to get to the Mojave.

[retlaw83]

The date being 9 years has nothing to do with Fallout 3's quest and everything to do with what the Courier did prior to NV.

The Lone Wanderer leaving the CW doesn't break the main quest - I think the idea of getting caught up in a wacky adventure that sidetracks you for a decade is fitting with the rest of the world. It does break the logic of several sidequests though, like the fire ant one. That being said, Fallout 3's story elements are already such a dog's breakfast that not much can break the lack of logic a lot of them already exhibit.

The solution is simple if you think Fallout 3's story should be finished before going to Vegas - do Fallout 3's story then head to Vegas, get revenge on Benny, then head back for Broken Steel missions.  The game is designed to be tackled in any order you want.

As for your Brotherhood idea, I think it's good - you do the train station the way it is now, come back a few years later and find it overrun by Brotherhood.

[charwo]

If this is still a discussion, I tend to think of TTW as two separate but connected games, and definitely two different characters. It's why I like the  start in the Mohave so very much. I mean, yes certainly, the courier COULD be the Lone Wanderer, but frankly, that doesn't make a lick of sense the way I play. Unless you nuke the Pentagon, the LW has a future in reconstructing the capital wasteland. There's a shitton to do there: ecological restoration, scavenging the ruins of DC before probably blowing them up in controlled demolition, wiping out the raiders, refurbishing the Vaults (a treasure trove of safety and technology even for the worst off of them), or in my character's case, hoping for the day to come home, and in the meantime working with Doc Barrows to if not cure mutancy, then to a least remove it's worst effects (Supermutant hyper-rage and retard and the ghouls' various deformities).



From playing a doctor, and doing even a little bit of research, with modern technology, prosthetic lifelike noses, lips, ears, contact lenses as well as hair plug restoration, to say nothing of now emerging technologies like spay on skin grafting, lab grown organs (this is mentioned in canon concerning NCR's windfall in annexing Vault City) which would be relatively old hat technologies by 2077 and thus to Vault Dwellers, as well as finding effective vasodilators to make sure reconstructive grafts stick and don't necrotic like the original parts. Even a doctor with a good auto-doc could spend a lifetime just doing dentistry.



More to the point, you'd be a damn fool to ever give up power armor, or not wear it at all times on courier duty. So Benny and co would never have been able to take down the Courier in Goodsprings. Also, the Courier has no particular animosity towards the Enclave, despite if the TTW model is followed, they straight up MURDERED his/her father, and was extensively involved in the atrocities of the DC Vaults and threatened her home while he/she was away, as mentioned in Trouble on the Homefront. In fact, I doubt the Courier could be a Vault Dweller a all, because after the Enclave kidnapped the entire Vault 13 population for bioweapons testing, a Vault Dweller in the know would flip their shit at anyone defending the Enclave. And mind you, this is an atrocity the NCR would ape at every turn and thus the Courier had to know about it. So I think by design, the Courier must be at least 30 years old to make Lonesome road work and not a Vault Dweller because they lack emotional investment in the Enclave' evil deeds.