Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

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Decker
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by Decker » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:35 pm

Name of the armor in question is 'Wastelander's Gear', it was originally cut content in Fallout 3 - It looks exactly like Merc Troublemaker outfit, but instead of 8Lbs it only weighs 1 Lbs, and instead of DT:1 like most merc outfits the Wastelander's Gear has DT:12 in TTW.. and while Merc Outfits cost 50 caps, the Wastelander's Gear is valued at only 12 caps (if one is indeed careless enough to sell the most advanced discreet light armor in game).

Wastelander's Gear is rare, but it is not unique - It is included in some random encounters, like Sam Warrick and another one I am not so sure of (could have been the Oasis Raiders perhaps, or some slavers) - What I am sure of is that I did find a total of two of these Wastelander's Gear outfits during my TTW 3.2 playthrough of the capital wasteland.

My opinion of the subject matter is that it would be better if some of these light armor stats were made a bit more plausible for what the armor is supposed to be. 1 pound bulletproof clothing outfit does not in any way completely ruin my gameplay experience, but it does feel a bit silly and out of place - Why must it weigh only 1 pound in game, what is the reasoning behind it?

Edit: I just noticed that the cut Wastelander's Gear armors weight in F3 was 2 Lbs, and realized that it must have been affected by the Pack Rat perk which halves the weight of any objects 2Lbs or less carried in inventory. So the actual initial weight is 2Lbs, but my opinion still remains the same - Still way too light for DT:12 armor protection.

brfritos
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by brfritos » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:31 pm

Risewild wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:16 am
Lag-Bolt armor being light was a bug. It's already fixed though.

I don't know what a Wasteland Armor is :? .
Sorry, the correct name is "Wasteland Gear". :oops:

brfritos
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by brfritos » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:58 pm

Decker wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:35 pm
Name of the armor in question is 'Wastelander's Gear', it was originally cut content in Fallout 3 - It looks exactly like Merc Troublemaker outfit, but instead of 8Lbs it only weighs 1 Lbs, and instead of DT:1 like most merc outfits the Wastelander's Gear has DT:12 in TTW.. and while Merc Outfits cost 50 caps, the Wastelander's Gear is valued at only 12 caps (if one is indeed careless enough to sell the most advanced discreet light armor in game).

Wastelander's Gear is rare, but it is not unique - It is included in some random encounters, like Sam Warrick and another one I am not so sure of (could have been the Oasis Raiders perhaps, or some slavers) - What I am sure of is that I did find a total of two of these Wastelander's Gear outfits during my TTW 3.2 playthrough of the capital wasteland.

My opinion of the subject matter is that it would be better if some of these light armor stats were made a bit more plausible for what the armor is supposed to be. 1 pound bulletproof clothing outfit does not in any way completely ruin my gameplay experience, but it does feel a bit silly and out of place - Why must it weigh only 1 pound in game, what is the reasoning behind it?

Edit: I just noticed that the cut Wastelander's Gear armors weight in F3 was 2 Lbs, and realized that it must have been affected by the Pack Rat perk which halves the weight of any objects 2Lbs or less carried in inventory. So the actual initial weight is 2Lbs, but my opinion still remains the same - Still way too light for DT:12 armor protection.

Sam Warrick don't use Wasteland Gear, he always use a lether armor. If he's not using one is a bug or a mod is changing it.
The only way to obtain this armor is by random encounter or if you use jsawyer mod, Cliff Briscoe has a single copy to sell in Novac.
As for the price is a cut content that hadn't the price adjusted.

Like I said before that's why I'm against changing it, it's a unique armor the same way there are some unique weapons like Occan's Razor or Chance's Knife that are extremelly powerfull for a simple combat knife.
Sure, the Wasteland Gear is powerfull when you start the game, but after some levels it loses the usefullness fast even if your build favor light armor.

I used the same approach when adjusting jsawyer mod to work with TTW, so the Armored Vault 101 Jumpsuit has 12 DT, 15lbs and their original bonus (+5 guns and ew). Almost the same stats of the Armored Vault 21 Jumpsuit, minus the bonus (+1 luck).
I actually think the bonuses are way OP in my opinion, but it's something that is so ingrained in the game that I don't dare change it.

Ask yourself this question: why should I use a light armor that weights as much as a combat armor, but have less protection?
You have to give the player some incentive to use the armor.
A leather armor weight of 8 or 9 lbs with 9 or 10 DT is more than enough and you will have room to spare in yur inventory, but it won't protect you even against a bloatfly attack. It's a trade off.
Heck, even power armor takes damage when it shouldn't in this game. :lol:

Of course I'm talking in terms of jsawyer mod, which restricts the player carry weight.

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RoyBatty
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by RoyBatty » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:33 am

Bug, changed it to 2DT.
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brfritos
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by brfritos » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:13 pm

RoyBatty wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:33 am
Bug, changed it to 2DT.
Ahhh... :(

I thought it was the real stats for that armor.
Well, back to using Sierra Madre armor then (I hate the lazy butt design of the various vault's jumpsuit armors).

Also a tip for light armor lovers: geting the Survival Guru perk that enhances DR, bathing in Harold's blood and the bobblehead Endurance makes wonder for this type of armor. ;)

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Decker
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by Decker » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:24 pm

I am not one hundred percent certain exactly which random encounters I got the two sets of the 'Wastelander's Gear' armor from, but I did acquire two sets in the same playthrough, so it is not unique, just very rare. I am not running any mods which would touch any armors at all; I've got standard load order for TTW 3.2.1 with level99+perk every level and enhanced camera, that's all.

DT:2 for a 2Lbs outfit is indeed way more plausible, IMHO. Perhaps at least 3 or 4Lbs of weight would be more appropriate, considering how the outfit looks like; motorcycle boots, jeans, leather jacket, gloves and ammo belts.

brfritos
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by brfritos » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:19 am

Decker wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:24 pm
I am not one hundred percent certain exactly which random encounters I got the two sets of the 'Wastelander's Gear' armor from, but I did acquire two sets in the same playthrough, so it is not unique, just very rare. I am not running any mods which would touch any armors at all; I've got standard load order for TTW 3.2.1 with level99+perk every level and enhanced camera, that's all.

DT:2 for a 2Lbs outfit is indeed way more plausible, IMHO. Perhaps at least 3 or 4Lbs of weight would be more appropriate, considering how the outfit looks like; motorcycle boots, jeans, leather jacket, gloves and ammo belts.

You actually picked the armor from the same guy. Seriously. :P

The Wasteland Gear can only be acquired by a random encounter with a "wastelander" fighting some animals or abominations (it's level dependant).
The problem is some random encounters repeat in FO3, specially his.
For example, the random encounter next to Vault 106 always repeat in the game, except when is a battle between two groups. In this case the group that wins will always respawn.

I had the random encounter with the wastelander wearing the Wasteland Gear armor and he always respawn, I even stopped colecting his armor because I already had 4 sets. LOL

It's not the case of a rare armor because you can only find the armor with him and no one else.
We can only do so much with bugs, but the game behaving glitchy is something out of our control.
You wanna see a OP armor? Play Operation Anchorage and after getting the loot in the armory you will have General Jingwei uniform, which is... 12 DT, 2 lbs and provides +5 to speech!

Even in a vanilla game it's OP, with a 25 DR and weight of 2lbs. It's only 3 DR points below the Talon Combat Armor. :shock:

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RoyBatty
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by RoyBatty » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:05 am

I see this was intended so reverting the change, but I will set him to not respawn.
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Decker
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by Decker » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:20 pm

So these super lightweight discreet armors (2Lbs, DT:12 or so) are intentionally overpowered to the degree of stopping handgun rounds, I cannot help but to wonder why?

IMHO, it makes no sense. I have no problems with a set of clothing weighing 2 Lbs, or an actual bodyarmor having DT:12, but when these two things meet in the same item I find it very unplausible. Using similar armor tech and materials, DT to weight ratios should be more or less comparable, but these odd superlight armor outfits are like at least several centuries ahead of the mainstream bodyarmor tech (like combat armors or bullet resistant vests) in game. A rebalance mod would do well to either increase weight or decrease DT of these more problematic items (like Wastelander's Gear, Jingwei's Uniform or All-purpose Science Suit).

Just because an armor set is unique, IMHO does not fully justify it to be completely and hilariously OP - It can and should be better for sure, but not like five or ten times better with DT to weight ratios - It is still supposed to be made of similar, but slightly improved materials.

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RoyBatty
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Re: Thoughts on light armor balancing in TTW3.2.1

Post by RoyBatty » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:45 pm

The developers set it that way, so that's how it stays.

Games != real life, also 200 years later with advanced tech and actual magic guns and shit so... yeah.
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