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Post by JaxFirehart » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:24 pm

I am opening some things for general discussion, I want input from everyone who reads this on various topics listed below. The current goal is to recreate FO3 in the FNV engine while also integrating appropriate upgrades. The question is, what are the appropriate upgrades.


Should some FNV creatures be integrated into FO3.

Things to Consider:

Most of the unique creatures in the Mojave are the result of experiments at Big MT. The mojave is much closer to Big MT than DC is.

There is nothing stopping these creatures from migrating and the post-war climate is similar enough in both wastelands.

Nightkin are a product of the Master's army and would probably not make sense in DC.

My Conclusion:

I am against integrating creatures at the moment, but community input could change that. Some creatures like the Deathclaw Matriarch and Patriarch wouldn't be a problem.

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I'm for things like the

Post by dandys » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:57 pm

I'm for things like the deathclaw alpha and mother, misc. things like deathclaw eggs radscorpion eggs ant eggs, and even maybe small/medium/large in some cases like Mole Rat Pup, Baby Deathclaw, Yao Guai Cub to add variation.

Until I hear a compelling argument for now I'm against New Vegas creatures, even things like Giant Rats and Mantises. I get that in real D.C. there might actually be Mantises and Giant Rats but I just don't think it feels like Fallout 3 with them there.

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Forgot about the yao guai

Post by JaxFirehart » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:06 am

Forgot about the yao guai pups and such definitely integrate them. I could maybe go for mantises and giant rats but I don't think so.

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I'm for all of the pups, dog,

Post by chucksteel » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:57 am

I'm for all of the pups, dog, coyote, yau guai, Mole rat babies, the differnt sizes of Radscorpion and, all the eggs for them Deathclaws and, ants. I don't know about the boss level Deathclaws though it would feel off kind of like how a Supermutant Bohemouth would be out of place in New Vegas. 

As for Rats and, manitses I think it would be good to introduce them into FO3. It would make it feel more like FO1/2 for the dyehard people who have played all of the series. In the early Fallouts there were Rats, Mole Rats and, Pig Rats. Mantises were a random encounter but, they were still there. 

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Never played the first two

Post by JaxFirehart » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:29 am

Never played the first two fallouts, I can't get into older games unless I have nostalgia from playing them in the past (not a complete graphics whore, but enough that it ruins stuff for me). If the rats and mantises were present in FO1/2 then I see no reason why we can't have them in FO3.

I see your point with the boss deathclaws, maybe as a random encounter or just leave the community to do ti if they feel like it.

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I think boss deathclaws

Post by steviestevens » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:17 pm

I think boss deathclaws should be in old olney and maybe the deathclaw sanctuary. I would make sense for atleast a mother in oldney since they over ran the town. While i'm a big fan of the old games and tactics, I think adding rats and matises wouldn't be good. The reason being that the old games are more or less in the mojave, the old games had komodo dragons for gods sake, imo the mantises shouldn't be added but maybe an argument could be made for rats I guess. Rats are everywhere.

edit: I also wanted to add i was not a big fan of the lake lurk in NV.

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I personally just think the

Post by JaxFirehart » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:22 pm

I personally just think the rats would feel out of place but, like you said, rats are everywhere so there is really no reason not to include them. Mantises are another thing that can actually be found in DC, but might not feel right. I'm with you on the deathclaws being in olney and the sanctuary only something that powerful shouldn't be random, like behemoths.

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A few things could be ported

Post by yukichigai » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:22 pm

There are one or two FNV creatures which would fit naturally into the Capital Wasteland, based on the approximate distribution of real-world animals:  Wild Dogs, Coyotes, Mantises, Rats and Giant Rats, and the "pup" versions of any of the existing CW animals.

The bigger question though is what do we gain by doing so?  Coyotes and Dogs would provide more sources of crafting items, Rats would be thematically appropriate but would need to be placed for maximum effect.  Mantises would also need to be placed.  Because of that, I'm not sure it's really worth the effort, at least given that it will alter the composition of the CW a little bit.

One thing that definitely needs to be addressed are Deathclaws and Radscorpions.  CW Deathclaws and Radscorpions are a lot weaker than their Mojave counterparts, and as it stands at the moment most players will get slaughtered by early-placed Deathclaws and Radscorpions if they aren't tweaked.  Radscorpions are a bit tricky, since small radscorpions are pathetically unthreatening, whereas medium ones are.  We'll probably need to make a special version of the CW Radscorpion to compensate.  As for Deathclaws, Young Deathclaws can be used, again with a possible adjustment to make them as threatening as the original CW versions.  We oculd also just make a special version there.  Either way, I think the CW versions need to be distinctly named, something like "Juvenile Radscorpion", that kind of thing, to make it clear that it's a different critter.

Now the small/young versions of other existing CW animals would make sense too, although again it would alter the environment a little bit.  I like to think it would be for the better, but htat might be just my opinion.

One thing I can say that we should do is keep the altered death item/carry item lists for critters.  Unless we want to complete suppress the NV crafting system in the CW, we need to keep those items, and those distributions.

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I am already keeping the

Post by JaxFirehart » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:53 pm

I am already keeping the changed death items. FalloutNV wins every conflict unless I have a pretty good reason why it shouldn't. As for deathclaws and radscorpions, I think we can alter most static placed deathclaws to be deathclaw young and we could make low level radscorpions instead be giant ants (maybe?). Just suggestions, I am onboard with almost everything you mentioned.

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Definitely not giant ants,

Post by yukichigai » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:58 am

Definitely not giant ants, since that would change the feel.  Also, Giant Ants aren't much of a threat compared to even FO3 Radscorpions, unless they're the fire kind... which are limited to Grayditch.

Oh speaking of critters, there's a fix that should be made that will affect both games: the Fire Ant Queen's distro list in NV is messed up.  It's supposed to give out eggs AND nectar, but winds up only giving out one or the other.  Minor quibble, already done on my end, but I thought I should mention it.

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