CROSS-CONTENT DISCUSSION: Weapons

[subtledoctor]

"The assault rifles served a fine role. Sure, they weren't very accurate, but the hunting rifle was the accurate gun. ARs were for high fire and damage."

To be clear: I agree 100% that the assault rifles had a clear place relative to other guns ... but they did not have a clear place relative to each other. There was absolutely no difference between them, except the Chinese variant was better. The US AR had zero utility if you had a Chinese AR in your inventory (and you could get a Chinese AR very early on).

I say, create some distinction there. Give them different firing characteristics, different ammo, something. Even better, I say, just replace the Chinese AR with another gun, like the assault carbine. (I reiterate my doubt that here would be so many Chinese weapons littering DC... that gun is the standard armament of all sorts of soldiers, security guards, and super mutants!  Better for it to be a special, rare thing... in fact maybe make the Chinese AR (Xuanlong) into the unique variant of the US AR... recall that the US AR has no unique model)

[Gribbleshnibit8]

Making the Chinese rifle more rare would be acceptable. Lucas, the Chinese remnants, and any place where Chinese corpses are found. Other than that, relatively rare across the wasteland.

Mostly I say keep the weapons that were in Fo3 there. It wouldn't feel right without access to the Chinese AR in some form.

[Aconagent1]

As far as I'm concerned, weapons from DC should be in Vegas, and weapons from Vegas should be in DC... after some stat fixes and perk editing. About the Chinese AR vs. the AR, there should be more of a distinction... the Chinese AR is supposed to be the AK-47, it should be more powerful, but have horrible accuracy, really, the Russians built it to fit STG-44 clips, and have terrible accuracy so that they didn't have to train their troops to shoot... the gun would just pump out bullets randomly at a given direction and eventually a bullet will hit the target. The Assault Rifle is supposed to be the FN FAL, so give it more accuracy, but make it Semi-Auto. The AR would be heavier, and have a longer range than the CAR. The distinction then would be that the AR would be a long range weapon, and the CAR would be a short range weapon.

[ElvenScoundrel]

Aconagent1, not to sound like a dick or anything, and I apologize if I do, but it seems to be that you got your info from Call of Duty or something.

 

AKs were reliable weapons, but their recoil was a bit harsh. Still, they were fairly manageable in full-auto, with decent training. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zuc5qxSYjUs granted, they used the vertical grip, but still. Recoil is moderate.

 

FN FALs are capable of full-auto fire, and the Fallout one isn't the FAL, it's the H&K G3, which is also capable of full-auto fire.

 

Anyways, the Chinese Assault Rifles shouldn't be in the Mojave at all, due to story reasons.

[Aconagent1]

@ElvenScoundrel

The FN FAL is mainly used as a Semi-Auto weapon because Western training is normally about aimed shots, and you would have to buy it Semi-Automatic only in the states. Also in Fallout 2, they had the FN FAL and it looks pretty much the same granted the low-res. The AK might have been a reliable weapon to a trained person, but it was made for the WW2 Soviet conscript army. The high-recoil makes it inaccurate to an untrained person, such as a post-apocolyptic wastelander.

Also, I hate Call of Duty, except for Nazi Zombies on WaW. XD

[Dynastia]

But both the guns use 5.56mm instead of 7.62mm ; so they should perform almost the same. I don't see what the problem is with having two guns perform the same role. It adds to flavour and variety, and the more different models of guns there are floating around that aren't tailored to fit a specific FPS template, the more realistic. In real life there's more than one type of 9mm pistol, and more than one type of .357 revolver, etc. In my load-order I've merged in about 20 new AK and AR varients alone.

 

Besides which, what you're saying about the AK-47 is just plain wrong, even by today's standards it's a perfectly serviceable assault rifle. (and the FAL kicked butt in vietnam when the SASR converted it to sawed-off full auto)

[Aconagent1]

@Dynastia
Allright, I give up XD

[subtledoctor]

@Dynastia I agree that having two guns perform the same role is fine; e.g. in NV the Assault Rifle and LMG play the same role, even while they have different characteristics and ammo. But in FO3, the AR and CAR have the *same* characteristics and the *same* ammo, and play the same role. They're practically the same gun.  The only alternative is a 10mm SMG. That is not what I call flavor and variety. 

The general point is, FO3 did not have the flavor and variety that FNV has... and this project is a chance to fix that!  FO3 cheap early revolver?  Obsolete before I even begin the game.  FNV cheap early revolver?  I'm using a .357 with JSP rounds as my default daytime weapon, at level 24!  Smallish automatic weapons?  FO3 has the AR and CAR (identical utility), and a 10mm SMG.  FNV has the LMG, Assault Carbine, and Bozar, plus 4 SMGs, plus a few fast semiauto rifles for variety. And almost all of them are useful for a large portion of the game. 

All we're suggesting is, why not bring some of the variety and utility of FNV's guns back to FO3?  IMHO good gameplay trumps realism and staying true to the original. (If we want to stay true to the original, we can always just play the original... this is, after all, a mod.)

[thermador]

[quote=Dynastia]I don't see what the problem is with having two guns perform the same role. It adds to flavour and variety, and the more different models of guns there are floating around that aren't tailored to fit a specific FPS template, the more realistic. In real life there's more than one type of 9mm pistol, and more than one type of .357 revolver, etc. [/quote]

Totally agree.  The more options there are, the better.  It leads to more varied, interesting gameplay.

It is a shame that we lost the .32 weapons - maybe at some point the can be restored along with more (new?) weapons that use the .32 ammo.

[JaxFirehart]

I never wanted to get rid of the .32 weapons, myself. I just didn't want there to only be 1 .32 weapon. Restoring it would be easy, but creating completely new weapons would be less so.

The options which were presented to me were: create a new .32 hunting rifle, which I vetoed because it just didn't feel right. I'm all for variety, but the guns shouldn't look identical. If we retexture and rename it, then its a new weapon and TTW isn't about making new weapons. I'm fairly stubborn about this particular point.

Another option was to change the ammo types of some other weapons. I was hesitant to do this because I refuse to makes major changes to FNV weapons, and I am apprehensive about major changes to FO3. I guess I am still open to this one, but it would take some pretty damn good reasoning.

Please keep any further discussion about .32 to the appropriate forum