CROSS-CONTENT DISCUSSION: Weapon Schematics

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dandys
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:23 pm

CROSS-CONTENT DISCUSSION: Weapon Schematics

Post by dandys » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:40 am

The recipe system replaced weapon schematics, but when we reintroduce Fallout 3, it'll still be there.


Workbenches must be the NV kind.


What should we do about schematics though?


We could just make them into recipes, with different recipes for different levels of schematic, but that'd be bad for two reasons in my opinion: one is that the recipe system doesn't allow for the essential repair-skill-based-conditions of Fallout 3 (and I think 100% all the time no matter what would be overpowered). Also, you have to consider that NV made some crafted weapons, like shishkebab, much more valuable and therefore overpowered if you could just make them easily.




Also remember that due to the New Vegas engine's new ammo features the Rock-It launcher is completely broken. It will crash if you try to use it. We have to either repurpose it to use a set ammunition (would be weird) or scrap it (would be sad), or something else.


I definitely want to see Dart Guns Railway Rifles Shishkebabs Deathclaw Gauntlets homemade grenades and even the Rock-It Launcher in some form in Fallout 3 again. However, maybe the crafting of those weapons is better left to NPCs, and they would be fine as only lootable/purchasable?


I vote for keeping Nuka Grenade and Bottlecap mine recipes of course, just worried about the real weapons.


I mean you can obviously tell that shishkebab is made from motorcycle tank and lawnmower blade, but maybe that can just add to realism and wouldn't just raise the question "why can't I craft that" as much as you might think. Besides, it has that nozzle thing, and the other weapons all have stuff like those, parts that aren't in the recipe that turn up on the weapon, which might make it more realistic to just have them NPC-bought and scavenged.



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

I vote for just converting

Post by JaxFirehart » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:56 am

I vote for just converting schematics to recpies. My solution to multiple schematics would be to require a really high repair skill with only 1 schematic, a moderate repair with 2 schematics and a medium-low skill with 3 schematics (90,60,40 as a brief example). Even if we made the crafted weapons spawn at low condition, then that would feel strange alongside FNV recipes that popped out full strength weapons. This is definitely something to work on over time.



chucksteel
Posts: 1356
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:20 pm

Agree with Jax on this one

Post by chucksteel » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:05 am

Agree with Jax on this one not a bad plan but, I also think it is someting we should think about before just jumping on the first Idea that works. I would like to wait on this one, get my hands on the new version for testing and, see what we all can come up with. 


could you explain why the rocket launcher can't be fixed? seems to me that it would just need it's own ammo list but, I'm sure theres more to it then that. 



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

In FNV ammo lists can only

Post by JaxFirehart » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:24 am

In FNV ammo lists can only include ammo objects. Since teddy bears and tin cans etc... are not ammo, the game crashes if you try to use them in an ammo list. The solution would be to create custom ammo types and projectiles that look just like random junk and then have some sort of scripted menu so that when you equip the rock-it launcher, you can load it with non-ammo junk which is then converted to ammo junk. If we use NVSE, I can also make it so that when you press 'R' the same menu pops up. All that being said, it would be a hell of a prototype. I think once we got some of the bigger stuff out of the way, I might look into doing just that.



yukichigai
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:28 am

I looked into making a

Post by yukichigai » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:34 pm

I looked into making a working Rock-It Launcher for the FO3 Weapons Restoration.  Even with NVSE it would take a massive, massive amount of work to get just that one weapon working like it used to.  I might be able to make some sort of super-hacky non-NVSE method, but it would never be fuly functional.  You'd never be able to fire something and then pick it back up if it bounced, for example.


Also, the way I handled Crafting in the Capital Wasteland was to turn the Workbenches into dual-use Crafting Benches, offering options to use either Workbench or Reloading Bench functions when used.  This was complimented by replacing all static campfires in the CW with the interactive Campfire crafting stations.  That system seemed to work well, and was even balanced right: there's not a lot of campfire crafting to be done in the CW.


Weapon Schematics should DEFINITELY be converted to the Recipe System, if only because it will provide an easy way to see whether or not you can craft one.  The differing item health based on how many schematics you have can be reproduced with some trickery (which I've already done).  I'm very hesitant to include any sort of skill check on the schematics though, the reason being that it would have been possible to do so in FO3 (easy, actually) and the developers didn't.



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

yukichigai wrote:

Post by JaxFirehart » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:08 pm

[quote=yukichigai]


I looked into making a working Rock-It Launcher for the FO3 Weapons Restoration.  Even with NVSE it would take a massive, massive amount of work to get just that one weapon working like it used to.  I might be able to make some sort of super-hacky non-NVSE method, but it would never be fuly functional.  You'd never be able to fire something and then pick it back up if it bounced, for example.


[/quote]


That's really too bad


[quote=yukichigai]


Also, the way I handled Crafting in the Capital Wasteland was to turn the Workbenches into dual-use Crafting Benches, offering options to use either Workbench or Reloading Bench functions when used. 


[/quote]


In the last version of TTW someone (I'm afraid I don't know who) scattered reloading benches throughout DC, it was very well done and doesn't require creating a new activator.


[quote=yukichigai]


This was complimented by replacing all static campfires in the CW with the interactive Campfire crafting stations.  That system seemed to work well, and was even balanced right: there's not a lot of campfire crafting to be done in the CW.


[/quote]


I liked the campfires being converted, but I wish there was more for the player to craft in DC. That's a huge gap that would be nice to fill at some point, though not for the base.


[quote=yukichigai]


The differing item health based on how many schematics you have can be reproduced with some trickery (which I've already done).  I'm very hesitant to include any sort of skill check on the schematics though, the reason being that it would have been possible to do so in FO3 (easy, actually) and the developers didn't.


[/quote]


The reason they didn't do skill checks is because they already chose to do health bonuses. In FNV you can craft a nuka-grenade without a schematic, but you need high skill. That is what I'm going for with TTW. As for jury rigging in the health bonuses, I know it can be done, but in FNV when you craft degradable items, they appear at full strength. It would look strange to craft one thing at full strength no matter what, and another thing at partial strength.



Darkersun
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:29 am

About the Rock-It launcher:

Post by Darkersun » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:56 am

About the Rock-It launcher:


Fook NV had a nice idea, turing it into a grenade shooting luncher.


It was possible to shoot  all the hand-grenades with it.


Maybe this is possible for the TTW version too ?


Regards,

Darkersun


- semi FNV Modder
- Wasteland lover

- System Spec: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T / MSI GTX 970 /12GB DDR3 RAM

dandys
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:23 pm

Well another idea I had for

Post by dandys » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:41 pm

Well another idea I had for the rock-it would be to make an ammo for it that you craft out of junk, called like rock-it bits or something. Or instead of crafting it, a script on the weapon could make them automatically out of junk when you equip it/ fire it. We'd then change the projectile to be a stream of little pellets or something.


I don't know maybe it'd fit in with the whole idea of using junk as well as the idea of having a wood chipper grind things up and shoot them out the nozzle. The nozzle is really small anyway so the little pieces would work. Maybe? It's a big change though



Blade
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:24 pm

I would agree with yukichigai

Post by Blade » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:51 pm

I would agree with yukichigai, I wouldn't want to see skill checks for using the schematics, I'd rather see either the condition being deteriorated as in FO3 or even just requiring larger quantities of the components to make the weapon as in the last version of TTW.


I like the idea of crafting ammo for the rock-it launcher, its not quite the same as launching the junk itself, but it keeps the spirit of it alive IMO.



thermador
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:24 pm

dandys wrote:

Post by thermador » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:17 pm

[quote=dandys]


Well another idea I had for the rock-it would be to make an ammo for it that you craft out of junk, called like rock-it bits or something. Or instead of crafting it, a script on the weapon could make them automatically out of junk when you equip it/ fire it. We'd then change the projectile to be a stream of little pellets or something.


I don't know maybe it'd fit in with the whole idea of using junk as well as the idea of having a wood chipper grind things up and shoot them out the nozzle. The nozzle is really small anyway so the little pieces would work. Maybe? It's a big change though


[/quote]


This is a cool idea for dealing with the Rock-It Launcher.  Have a script where it removes random junk from your inventory when you reload the weapon.  So when you reload, the script checks for the prescence of a bunch of items in your inventory, using a bunch of repeated stuff like (pseudocode):


IF inventory HAS "coffee mug"


    remove 1 "coffee mug" from inventory

    reload weapon with 8 rock-it bits


ELSEIF inventory HAS "8-ball"


   remove 1 "8-ball" from inventory

   reload weapon with 6 rock-it bits


ELSEIF inventory HAS "baseball"


   remove 1 "baseball" from inventory

   reload weapon with 3 rock-it bits


etc. etc.


It's not perfect certainly, and is more like a wood chipper, but it would accomplish the same sort of thing, in general principle.



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