TTW Performance Guide

General modding guides and authoring tutorials.
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RoyBatty
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I didn't dick around at all,

Post by RoyBatty » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:41 am

I didn't dick around at all, it just fails to launch or opens the game in a tiny window in the upper left corner of my monitor. It's likely because I have multiple displays and it doesn't work with them very well. I need to check the load stutters, it did seem to do something there and I would very much like to have those gone.


I'll try without borderless mode since I've never had issues alt-tabbing in the base game like other people do.


@Panda I don't use graphics mods at all anymore, they just don't fit the game and/or make it run poorly. I'm not a graphics whore so to speak, I'm more into a fun and seamless experience with game play rather than running around with my nose in the walls and rocks or taking screenshots. I use the AF and AA because banding and pixel crawl/jaggies annoy me to where I can't play a game with them.


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Mystical Panda
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There would definitely be an

Post by Mystical Panda » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:42 am

There would definitely be an input 'hit' of sorts (at least theoretically based on extra processing cycles sitting between the DX and the game engine but... showing more the less 'power' the system had to push through stuff), especially if it catches and passes on DX functions for things like input, and probably would cause additional input lag if pipelined on a single thread (can't pass on input events if we're still looking up or 'banking' data from the 'host' to the card). Though having all data strictly on the card, I'd venture a guess it's still adding input latency to some degree that should be 'masked' or mitigated by faster processors and a higher ipc into a negligible amount.


@ Roy, That's why I'm surprised (not necessarily doubting) your having the kinda of problems your having with it; anythings possible, but doesn't seem likely with your pc being what it is. 


My gpu and cpu isn't as powerful, but I can squeeze out between 40-60 frames at 1440p fairly easily with the mods I have. Though complicated lighting inside buildings like Camp McCarren and that rocket place with the ferals will absolutely drop it down below that. Very often when hitting 60 it's really smooth, but never as smooth as the base game without all the mods and stuff. I most definitely can tell a difference between anything 60+ and even 40+ as opposed to 30+ fps.


Some of us, like myself, were artists before becoming programmers all those years ago; I do still like to draw from time to time. My father was an artist which is something I inherited from him. Though back then, comic book art was my media of choice. Expression were things that were very important to us, and me regardless of source. In a way programming gave also me an opportunity, through the years, to be expressive (in a different sort of way- like an interesting novel or idea, just expressed in code).


So given that, I don't think it's about graphics 'whoring' as much as expression. Some like to see something beautifully rendered (even down to 20fps if they prefer- though I probably wouldn't enjoy that as much as perhaps someone else might, but if that's all I have, it's enough), and others it's about how the atmosphere makes them feel. Yes, some just want the best or feel they must have the best, whether graphic or hardware wise; that's cool too. While others just want to be a part of something, like those in the modding community who love to include 'others' work in their game for example. For those, mods let them do that in way; be part of something bigger. Even if their system isn't quite a good a someone elses, it's how they experience it for themselves, and that's what matters. Well, at least that's how I look at it.



Mystical Panda
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MajinCry wrote:

Post by Mystical Panda » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:05 am

[quote=MajinCry]


EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks cannot give a higher FPS. But it significantly reduces hitching, including cell load hitches. The game is a damn sight worse without it.


[/quote]


Isn't a hitch (lag) where the fps pauses for a second (comes to 0) while turning, loading assets or looking around? Overall, enough hitches would equate to an overall drop in fps? It very well might depend on system's 'horsepower', so to speak; more prominent with some than others. Let me play around with some tests over the next few days and see if I can figure it out; might be able to offer more into the mix. I'd never considered  activating [unsafe memory hacks] until you explained what it was. Thanks for that. It's definitely in there now.


Your not kidding! I don't think I could ever go back to a non-modded game again; Skyrim spoiled me there for sure.



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RoyBatty
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The issue with frame rate is

Post by RoyBatty » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:52 am

The issue with frame rate is purely draw calls and memory management problems. Oblivion runs like crap on my computer too because it's targeted at an older, slower API and designed around that.


I get mostly 60 FPS, but certain areas with a lot of alpha have issues due to the way the engine deals with it.


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FiftyTifty
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I've never had the framerate

Post by FiftyTifty » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:13 pm

I've never had the framerate hit 0, it's that the engine halts while it waits for resources to load. It had a huge benefit for me, both on my Phenom II 965 BE and i7 6700k, on all the games ENB has EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks for; Oblivion, Fallout New Vegas, and Skyrim.



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FiftyTifty
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RoyBatty wrote:

Post by FiftyTifty » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:16 pm

[quote=RoyBatty]


 


The issue with frame rate is purely draw calls and memory management problems. Oblivion runs like crap on my computer too because it's targeted at an older, slower API and designed around that.


I get mostly 60 FPS, but certain areas with a lot of alpha have issues due to the way the engine deals with it.


[/quote]


 


I'd say that Oblivion isn't designed around D3D9. Forward rendering is exactly what you should not have for an open world game, as it redraws the entire scene as many times as there are lights. It's only with Skylake and newer intel CPUs that you can actually keep 60fps in the Imperial City when it's raining (when guards take out their torches).


Modded Oblivion can even push my 6700k to sub-40fps, and I've not gone balls in with the environment mods.



Mystical Panda
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MajinCry wrote:

Post by Mystical Panda » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:27 pm

[quote=MajinCry]


 


I've never had the framerate hit 0, it's that the engine halts while it waits for resources to load. It had a huge benefit for me, both on my Phenom II 965 BE and i7 6700k, on all the games ENB has EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks for; Oblivion, Fallout New Vegas, and Skyrim.


[/quote]


I see what your referring to now maybe... even if it hitches, a multi-thread 'draw' would still be doing it's thing, just nothing is being updated movement wise?


Odd though that when data is being loaded off the hard drive, the fps counter goes up and down (multiple fps counters). Even with Fallout 4. So technically, if draw cells are happening independently of loading (or streaming), the fps would stay 60 (as reported by various overlays), even though everything would be lagging like crazy or 'jerking' all over the place.


Maybe I'm looking at the entire fps thing wrong, or we're referring to two different things. I just don't seem how you can draw anything if it hasn't been streamed into the game- at that moment the fps would have to slow down until some type of major data is loaded (the hitch), the rest is filled in (like LOD on the fly).



Mystical Panda
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MajinCry wrote:

Post by Mystical Panda » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:32 pm

[quote=MajinCry]


 I'd say that Oblivion isn't designed around D3D9. Forward rendering is exactly what you should not have for an open world game, as it redraws the entire scene as many times as there are lights. It's only with Skylake and newer intel CPUs that you can actually keep 60fps in the Imperial City when it's raining (when guards take out their torches).


Modded Oblivion can even push my 6700k to sub-40fps, and I've not gone balls in with the environment mods.


[/quote]


I see this quite a bit. Where the way the engine 'calculates', applies and overlays multiple light sources there's going to be performance hits (more so than other more 'modern' engies).


That's why I think Bethesda's development perspective is towards artistic expression first, programming second. It's like, we want to add fog. Can we do it? Yeah, just do this, reusing this. After adding and adding without restructuring and re-designing... yes we can add all those things, but you'd need a quantum computer to run it properly.



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jlf65
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If you wanna see FO3 grind to

Post by jlf65 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:12 am

If you wanna see FO3 grind to a screeching halt, install the glowing ghouls mod alongside mmm, then go out at night and find a pack of night ghouls. Instant freeze! ...unless you have a ridiculously powerful system, then it's just a slide show.



Mystical Panda
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jlf65 wrote:

Post by Mystical Panda » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:14 am

[quote=jlf65]


 


If you wanna see FO3 grind to a screeching halt, install the glowing ghouls mod alongside mmm, then go out at night and find a pack of night ghouls. Instant freeze! ...unless you have a ridiculously powerful system, then it's just a slide show.


[/quote]


I've seen a case of that in FNV with glowing ghouls and Monster Mod; it was a def 'tank'. 



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