New Iron Sights on laser weapons.

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Devvx7
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:20 pm

New Iron Sights on laser weapons.

Post by Devvx7 » Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:45 pm

Hi. This is a suggestion.

In 3.3.2 version, Laser Weapons which didn't have iron sights and ADS now have them, in a way excesively non-vanilla (IMHO).

If the goal of this project is to be able to play FO3 in the FNV engine, and so be able to play both, I understand there are some vanilla sides which must be overrode on behalf of better gameplay. Such as economy tweaks, leveling changes, hardcore tweaks, and other things made. I think the correct way to achieve this is by choosing the best one of the possibilities provided by each game, and if they are too diferent from each other, choose a balance point between them (as done with super-mutants, buffing them as the combat mechanics of NV are also buffed over FO3 ones).

Is by that way of thinking, that I don't understand the change made to the laser weapons, which didn't use iron sights in any of each game, and some other weapons which have been provided of reflex sights, such as the plasma ones. Those are changes beyond both games mechanics and aesthetics, and so make the game feel nowhere near original games.

I'm not stating they are bad. They're pretty cool and useful. I'm saying they should be added as a secondary/optional patch, because is a modification which is far away from the purpose of this mod, TTW.

TL/DR
The force-introduced Iron Sights on some weapons in the last 3.3.2 update, beside useful and so, are a modification way outside of the purpose of TTW. It's nothing we see in the base games, and so should be an optional patch and not an official implementation.

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Risewild
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Re: New Iron Sights on laser weapons.

Post by Risewild » Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:07 am

There is a common misconception that TTW is supposed to only be FO3 in FNV engine while using FNV systems in the most vanilla way possible.

TTW is a total conversion for FNV, this means that it is not just FO3 and FNV mixed together, it is something more and it's made so both FO3 and FNV feel like they were always one game. It leads to the editing, removal and addition of many things in both games so that TTW can achieve this.

It made no sense that all weapons have sights besides some energy weapons in that universe. It also made the gameplay feel out of place when using those weapons after using any other ones. It's something that disconnects and doesn't fit with the world. Or even the canon and lore of the Fallout universe, since Energy weapons always had sights in every other Fallout game (Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout Tactics and Fallout 4) and there are even some energy weapons with sights in Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 3 (Gauss Rifle) and even in Fallout Shelter (they added sights to the Plasma Rifle, Alien Blaster, etc.) although this last one is not canon.

It's the same with other stuff we added to TTW, like FO3 weapons that were given weapon mods, they never had weapon mods on the base game but TTW added those.

Following that logic, FO3 weapon mods should also be optional. Same with DC recipes and craftable products added by TTW, armors having both DT and DR, FO3 weapons being able to use different ammo types, FO3 companions having companion perks, adding reloading benches to FO3, making FO3 unique weapons look unique, adding new poisons, adding some cut content, adding harvesteable plants to FO3, adding cooking "stations" (BBQ grills, campfires and some other fires now allow to cook) to FO3, fixing the weapons meshes so they actually align when aiming (this is not related to the added sights), the changes to bobbleheads, etc.

We can counter what I am saying with "Well, those things didn't exist in FO3 but did exist in FNV, so those are fine. Since it feels like they should be there", but then we can also counter this with "but energy weapons do have sights in FNV and even FO3 too (Gauss Rifle), (and in all other Fallout games including FO4) so why would it make sense that some of them don't have them in TTW?".

Another point to be considered, is that even the developers decided that (at least some of) those weapons should have sights, and added in the "Gun Runners Arsenal" DLC variants of energy weapons that we can install sights on them. :geek:

Like our FAQ says right at the start:
Q: What is TTW?
A: Tale of Two Wastelands is a total conversion project that seamlessly merges Fallout 3 and its DLC into Fallout: New Vegas, allowing both games to be played in a single playthrough. It upgrades Fallout 3's mechanics to those of FNV, while balancing both games to feel like you're playing one full game (instead of two different games using the same character).

New Vegas mechanics like companion wheel, companion perks, weapon mods, crafting, recipes, harvestable plants, and poisons have been added to the DC wasteland items, NPCs, and world.

TTW also restores some cut content, fixes hundreds of thousands of bugs, adds some items, changes the level cap from level 50 to 60, alters the FO3 bobbleheads to give mini perks (since it's already too easy to max SPECIAL and Skills in TTW), and more.

TTW isn't just FO3 in FNV. It has become a unique game, with its own balance, fixes, changes, additions and other unique things that differentiate it from both FO3 and FNV.
TTW is its own game, it's no longer FO3 or FNV, but a different thing altogether, which means that it does whatever it needs to do for the sake of its own gameplay and consistency. When someone installs and plays TTW they need to know they are not playing FNV or FO3 anymore, it's a different beast of a game.

I do understand your point, but it doesn't follow TTW's vision and should be better made as a mod for TTW than it being an option in TTW. TTW doesn't make "optionals" anymore (since version 2.*something*), since making those consumes too much development time and it's a mess to support. Basically "optionals" can double (or even more) the work for the team every time a new version is made, which in itself already takes several years of work. :shock:
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Bullfrog
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Re: New Iron Sights on laser weapons.

Post by Bullfrog » Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:16 am

Having a part of the weapons with iron sights and another part without would make the latter completely useless for a lot of the players, because they wouldn't be able to aim them. Where is the sense in that? FO3 didn't have a real iron sight system, FNV does, so FO3 weapons need to have iron sights too in TTW to have a consistent experience.

If you don't like the new iron sights on some weapons, you can always create your own mod to remove them or replace them with something else. TTW can be modded too, just like the base games.

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