Perk Issues: ideas for solutions?

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Perk Issues: ideas for solutions?

Post by dandys » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:00 pm

There are some perks that might cause some overlap/problems in the merge. Nothing terribly important, but I think brainstorming some solutions could be helpful. Here are some I can think of.

1. Deep Sleep/ Roughin' It

Deep Sleep adds Well Rested whenever you sleep, Roughin' It adds Well Rested whenever you sleep outdoors. Roughin' It would be useless if you have Deep Sleep and there is no reason to take it over Deep Sleep. However, they both suffer the problem of being inferior to Swift Learner, which gives 10% XP regardless of whether you have slept or not. Maybe a solution could be to have Deep Sleep work for only interior beds, but that would make both perks even more pathetically weak, or perhaps Roughin' It could do something else? Or perhaps it would be better to remove Well Rested altogether, since the New Vegas hardcore already gives incentive for sleeping and the whole "owned bed" thing can just be for convenience, or maybe Well Rested can be restricted only to hotel beds and Red Lucy/Sarah. Ideas?

2. Size Matters

Big guns is removed, so what kind of effect can Size Matters have instead of a big guns boost? Perhaps some kind of boost to big guns like 2-handed handle weapons and 2-handed launcher weapons, like reduced spread, or something like that?

I'll write down more as I come up with them.

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Size Matters: You know that

Post by Copper Hamster » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:49 pm

Size Matters: You know that the right of way goes to the biggest guns! You know how to use the devestating impact of oversized weapons to your advantage. (Use a list of large weapons like gatlings, rockets, missiles etc, taking this perk gives them a noticable knockback (not down) effect against enemies.)

Deep Sleep... heck I dunno. Double/triple the duration of well rested? I've never felt the desire to take that perk at all. Or roughing it.

I just had a bizarre idea for roughing it, but it would probably be tricky to do, and not worth anything really. While the player is outdoors and/or fast traveling, the well rested timer doesn't decrease.

Frankly there are quite a few 'why would I take this again?' perks out there imo, so aside from ones that have to change or disappear (like Size Matters) I wouldn't worry too much about them.

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Size Matters: Replace the Big

Post by Kainschylde » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:00 pm

Size Matters: Replace the Big Guns effect with a weight effect? Stackable with Weapon Handling perhaps.

Deep Sleep: I like Drake's idea. Trait instead of Perk, gets Well Rested anywhere instead of just in owned beds, risk of oversleeping for balance. If you take Deep Sleep trait, any perk effecting sleep is removed from availability.

Roughing It: Leave alone, its current effect is still valid.

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Risk oversleeping? That's not

Post by pintocat » Mon May 13, 2013 1:23 pm

Risk oversleeping? That's not an issue, unless you're close to a hardcore limit that will kill you.

It's not even just the effect of the sleep perks. It's the requirements.

Deep Sleep

Level 22

No skill req

All sleep gives well-rested

Roughin' It

Level 28

Survival 100

Outdoors sleep gives well-rested

Personally, I think Deep Sleep should just be removed for redundancy. Or Roughin' It, maybe, and Leave Deep Sleep, since I think Roughin' It's requirements are ridiculous.

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I would love to see unused

Post by plumjuice » Mon May 13, 2013 2:05 pm

I would love to see unused perks given relevence, but I have a personal disdain for xp boosting perk and/or traits. Roughin It with a survival boost while outside could be nice I guess, but skill boosting perks are only slightly better than xp related ones.

Having it boost special points would be cool (maybe +1 end and per) while outside, but I think there already quite a few of those (I play with the more perks mod so I cant really remember the vanilla-only perks).

Perhaps make Roughin It allow you to make a campfire and bed? I know the Willow mod has that as a conversation option, so it is possible. Is there already a perk that does that? And is it getting a little far from the perks original purpose for anyone?

As for deep sleep, I am hesitant to make it a trait (with a max of two, I dont think I'd ever use one for an xp boost), but maybe if it was something like a +5(ish) to every skill for 1(or whatever) hour to represent your recuperation? Or a +10 for 2 hours to non-combat skills? Dunno.

But please, not yet another bland +10% xp or static skill boost.

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Well there's already a perk

Post by pintocat » Mon May 13, 2013 6:49 pm

Well there's already a perk that lets you sleep at a campfire. Maybe Roughin' it should be given free with Home on the Range... neither really seems that great on its own. 

Or maybe Roughin' It can give the Roughin' It Portable Bedroll for free and/or 0 weight.

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Ok I just thought about this

Post by Risewild » Tue May 14, 2013 1:49 am

Ok I just thought about this for a while and came up with some suggestions, I based my ideas on being refreshed and rested from sleep for the Deep Sleep perk and based them on the high survival value you need and that it represents how tough your character is for the Roughin' It perk. All of this effect I put there should only last for as long as the well rested bonus. I think that with some of this ideas many players would love to pick both of the perks to have a sleep based character hahahaha.

Tell me what you think of this silly ideas, and add/change, suggest anything you want to wink.

Deep Sleep

You sleep deeply no matter where you are. You get the Well Rested benefit of +10% XP for eight hours no matter what bed you sleep in.

Level 22

No skill req

All sleep gives Well Rested

* increase moving speed by some % (because you're refreshed from good sleep) and/or Reduced weapon spread (because you're calm and more focused from good sleep) and/or Increasing your carrying weight by some value (same reason as the moving speed bonus) and/or increased critical hit chance (same reason as the reduced weapon spread bonus), etc *


Roughin' It

You're more at home under the open stars than under a roof. Any time you sleep outside, you gain the benefits of being Well Rested, even if you don't own the bed.

Level 28

Survival 100

Outdoors sleep gives Well Rested

* Gain health regen for a small amount (maybe 1) per several seconds (because you are though and requires MAX survival skill) and/or Gain a small bonus DR increase (because you're not a wuss that sleeps in comfy beds, sleeping outside makes you tougher) and/or increased healing and more starvation reducing from food consumed (nothing better than a manly breakfast after a manly night of sleep) and/or no effect from crippled limbs and/or addictions (it's ok you can sleep it off) (this would go awesome with the perk Eye for Eye), etc *


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A few more things on perks.

Post by pintocat » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:19 am

A few more things on perks.

Size Matters  

2.0 release notes say it's been changed, and it has. It looks nicely done, using a formlist for weapon eligibility. However, it's not marked as Playable, and is marked Hidden. Can't be selected..?

Xenotech Expert  

it's using a bunch of explicit GetIsID rather than a list. I think it should be changed to use a formlist, to maintain it better. Even the Pitt AutoAxpert uses a list. I think this should use one because 

1) PN has some alien weapons in it (though they will most likely be removed from the equipment module since they're in TTW). and 

2) there are actual DLC05 weapons not included in the perk's conditions. (DLC05WeapBatonUniqueDLC05WeapCaptainsSideArm).

I also think the perk needs something else in addition... it's such a limited-use perk. Most of the weapons can only be obtained 1 place, with limited ammo. Waste of a perk. Maybe it could also reduce weapon wear rates for them

Auto Axpert

I think the perk is pretty lame, honestly. Maybe the formlist for weapon eligibility should have added to it the Ripper (and unique variants) and the Chainsaw (and unique variants). Maybe even the industrial hand. Pretty much the 

Mama Stankum
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Another little perk point:

Post by Mama Stankum » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:51 pm

Another little perk point: perhaps Point Lookout's four tribal races be added to the races affected by the Sneering Imperialist perk?

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I agree.

Post by JaxFirehart » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:33 pm

I agree.


I made size matters hidden because I was unhappy with it, but I don't remember why.

Xenotech Expert isn't a level-up perk, is it? I thought it was a quest reward in Zeta. If it is a quest reward then its narrow focus is fine, if not, then it needs to be beefed up a bit. Same for Auto Axpert.

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