Should TTW Require NVSE

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Krowges
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:49 pm

I am definitely in favor of

Post by Krowges » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:22 pm

I am definitely in favor of NVSE.


 


Edit: witch version ov NVSE are you considering latest version 2b12 or beta version 3b2?



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rickerhk
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:50 pm

You should use 3b2.

Post by rickerhk » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:42 pm

You should use 3b2.


Also, NVSE is still being developed. Hopefully V4 will be out soon.



Gribbleshnibit8
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:06 am

Yeah, version 4.2 adds soooo

Post by Gribbleshnibit8 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:28 pm

Yeah, version 4.2 adds soooo many cool things. String and array vars, custom defined functions, and a whole bunch of NPC stuff.



CourierSix
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:07 pm

I'm kind of concerned to see

Post by CourierSix » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:27 pm

I'm kind of concerned to see this thread still going. I'm surprised this is even a question - if NVSE can make the two games more seamlessly a single game, then yes. If it makes the job of doing it easier, then yes. If it allows the dev team to do more of what they'd like (given they're doing this purely out of goodwill to the community here), then yes yes yes. TTW is difficult(ish) to install on it's own - I had some troubles with C++ redistributables, and it took a while to get it working, but that was my problem. As far as I'm concerned, TTW is a mod that requires a certain level of computer literacy. If you can only do plug in and play, you shouldn't go anywhere near mods. As for any real reason to not include it... well, I haven't seen a legitimate one in this thread.


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JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

The only reason I haven't

Post by JaxFirehart » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:51 pm

The only reason I haven't required it is because of the TTW design philosophy: TTW should make NV and FO3 feel like they were MEANT to be played together and do so in a seamless manner. When we have to change something we first have to justify why it needs to be changed, we do this by examining NV's design principles and extrapolating from there. For example: in vanilla FO3, when entering the Pitt, you have the option to conceal either a gun or a knife. NV has similar circumstances, but handles them by using the holdout weapon system, so the holdout weapon system was applied to the Pitt, meaning that you may now smuggle in any holdout weapon. By doing this we both upgraded outdated FO3 mechanics, AND managed to make DC feel more integrated by using an existing, familiar system.


The point of all this is: if we have to use NVSE to make something work, it is often a pretty good indicator that we are approaching the problem in the wrong way. I am not against using NVSE, but I have yet to encounter any problem that could only be solved sufficiently by using NVSE. That said, 2.3a has a VERY useful new system that allows modders to use NVSE to detect EXACTLY which wasteland the player is in, being specific enough to identify which DLC worldspace they are in. This is in base TTW but is written in such a way that if you DON'T have NVSE, it won't cause problems. If you DO have NVSE, you get a little extra functionality. Again, TTW is supposed to be seamless and invisible. The idea being that if you had never played either game and started with TTW, nothing would seem out of place or inconsistent.



CourierSix
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:07 pm

Those are good points, but I

Post by CourierSix » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:00 pm

Those are good points, but I'm not sure you guys should run around in circles to try and accommodate a small minority who don't want to use NVSE. Obviously I'm not one to argue the teams design vision, but I'm honestly not sure not having NVSE makes the ideals of TTW (to make the two games one game, and not just separate world spaces you can jump between) any less valid. I'm not saying it's necessary either, but I think that if you guys think you could do something better, or perhaps just easier, it's definitely something you should consider. I think I speak for most of the community when I say we'd prefer updates that required NVSE than slower updates because you had to work around not having it. That being said, you guys are the devs ;) Only you know exactly what your vision is, and my idea of TTW might be different to yours. And I've only been around for a little while, so speaking for the community might be slightly presumptuous :P 


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JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

Not at all.

Post by JaxFirehart » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:07 pm

Not at all.


And believe me, if NVSE is more time friendly and/or better, then I will use it without a second thought. What I meant was, any time I've considered using NVSE I realized soon after that my proposed solution was overly complex or otherwise out of place. Anytime I go to use NVSE, I stop and think through it carefully because it's like a warning flag.



CourierSix
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:07 pm

Interesting. And I suppose it

Post by CourierSix » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:13 pm

Interesting. And I suppose it's more of a challenge for you as well :P Working within the constraints of the system you're given is always going to be more difficult than being able to do whatever you like. Ultimately, I think it's a dev decision - if you think you can do your jobs without it, and in reasonable time without horrible frustration, than it's entirely up to you whether you want to add things that will need it (which admittedly does NOT sound like the TTW design vision, but I'm not opposed to it - improvements are as welcome as integration IMO, if not in everyones opinion). If you need it... well, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. 


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Dionysus
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:49 pm

At end of the day it will

Post by Dionysus » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:09 pm

At end of the day it will make the mod better easier to manage and it not hard to install. If you run mods you prob use NVSE any ways. Most FO3 mods are ported over to NV and use NVSE. This is just a tool that is easy to install and don't need any special love and care. To not use a tool like this is silly as it makes more possible than problems. As for f03 mods well they need converting to TTW any ways im sure the person doing that is smart enough to change fose to nvse if it even needed. If you can't live with out a mod ask author to change it. TTW should be just Handel by team and tools should be there choice, like mods you use are yours.



minesawhiskey
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:48 am

NVSE is just like SKSE to

Post by minesawhiskey » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:13 pm

NVSE is just like SKSE to install there are plenty of video's on youtube on how to do it and if a noobie like me can do it anyone can. You make an epic mod already and if simplifiying thing's for yourself's makes for a better mod then I'm all for it :-) 



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