Should TTW start in Vault 101 only?

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thermador
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:24 pm

TTW.esm can do one of these

Post by thermador » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:02 pm

TTW.esm can do one of these things:


1) Hard-coded start in NV (this is what TTW.esm does currently)




  • a) An additional ESP file is required to start in DC (Vault 101) that over-rides the ESM


  • b) Disabling DC chargen (if you start in NV) or disabling NV chargen (if you start in DC) is currently handled by transport mods when you travel, like Chuck's train transport mod or my Vertibird transport mod prototype - these fixes are NOT hardcoded into the ESM, but they could be (but if they were, they would have to be overridden by the alternate start ESP file as well)


  • c) The problem: You would need an optional ESP files to override the ESM, and debugging would be harder.  Is the bug in the ESM or is it in the ESP file?  How do we fix it?  If we change something in the ESM, does it have to be changed in the optional ESP file too?  Would any transportation mods (train, vertibird, etc.) need to be updated?  etc.


2) Hard-coded start in DC (the opposite of what TTW.esm does currently)




  • a) Same as above: An additional ESP file would be required to start in New Vegas that would over-ride the ESM


  • b) Same as above: Disabling DC chargen (if you start in NV) or disabling NV chargen (if you start in DC) is currently handled by transport mods when you travel, like in Chuck's train transport mod does now - these fixes are NOT hardcoded into the ESM, but they could be (but if they were, they would have to be overridden by the alternate start ESP file as well).


  • c) The problem: same as above: it's just the opposite of the current situation.


3) Ask you where you want to start (what RickerHK's startup menu mod would do if merged with TTW.esm)




  • a) No additional ESP files would be required (both start options are built in)


  • b) Transport mods would not have to modify the unused start location.  All fixes to the unused chargen system (for example, the NV chargen if you started in DC) would be applied by a script depending on what option you select for your start location.  So if you start in NV, the script would automatically add a "Letter from Dad" to your inventory (or some such), complete the Vault 101 quests (CG01, CG02, CG03, and CG04) disable the CGsunblind dummy ref, enable the enclave radio, etc. 


  • c) This solves the problems mentioned above, but it creates problems for anyone using any OTHER alternate start mods for NV.


So...


How many people actually use an alternate start mod for NV - one that significantly changes chargen in NV?


How many people are planning to use such a mod and TTW at the same time?


 


 



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

I have a proposal. I can

Post by JaxFirehart » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:32 pm

I have a proposal. I can program the installer to automatically change the start quest in the Fallout.ini file to point to a special TTW quest that gives the option of where to start. This would allow the user to choose their start locations without actually touching the start quests in either FO3 or FNV. This would allow them to use alternative start locations alongside a start menu, probably without conflicts. I think I will set up the framework for that now. The difficulties will arise in programming the story changes (like adding the letter from Dad) to be start location neutral.


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thermador
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:24 pm

Now that's a smart idea. 

Post by thermador » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:56 pm

Now that's a smart idea.  Good thinking!


So if someone used a New Vegas chargen-changing mod, it would get activated when they chose to start in NV.


A story change as part of TTW (like the letter from dad) should still work fine, the script would just have to be changed a little.


Right now that mod uses a trigger outside of Doc Mitchell's to run that script (which starts a 60 second delay timer). The script would just be changed to run when the player clicked on "Start in NV" at the beginning, so that about 60 seconds after they start, the note would be added to the player's inventory regardless of where they start in NV.  Of course "60 seconds" could be changed to any length of time.


Similar fixes for players starting in DC (such as disabling the Vitality Tester) would be run when the player clicked on "Start in DC" at the beginning.



JaxFirehart
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

Just noticed a serious

Post by JaxFirehart » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 pm

Just noticed a serious problem. By changing the .ini to point at a new TTW quest, if the player disables TTW, then they will no longer be able to start a new game because it can't find the new start quest.



Trm8r
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:49 pm

I vote for a start menu, love

Post by Trm8r » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:28 am

I vote for a start menu, love them options.


I don't see any plot holes by starting in vegas. You were shot in the head, and vegas starts you off with no memory. A clever writer could ease us into the Capital wasteland quests. I grew up in the vault, left, wound up in a vegas grave, and now I'm back. Maybe that bastard Moriarty screwed me over for not paying for information. Maybe I was sold to slavers. Maybe I was a brotherhood recuit taking a report of/for Lyons back west. Maybe someone paid me to deliver a chip to vegas.



thermador
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:24 pm

JaxFirehart wrote:

Post by thermador » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:43 am

[quote=JaxFirehart]


Just noticed a serious problem. By changing the .ini to point at a new TTW quest, if the player disables TTW, then they will no longer be able to start a new game because it can't find the new start quest.


[/quote]


Hmmm ... good point.  It would require an "uninstaller" .exe to re-patch it... dang.



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chucksteel
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I was wrong RickerHK's start

Post by chucksteel » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:50 am

I was wrong RickerHK's start menu is hanging when you use it for a DC start! Worked fine with an NV start. 



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

I can make an uninstaller

Post by JaxFirehart » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:10 am

I can make an uninstaller without ANY effort. That just means that people who stop using TTW would have to remember to run the uninstaller or change the ini themselves. Honestly, because of the way we are building TTW, there is no reason to EVER uninstall it. If you choose to start in NV and never go to DC it will be just like not even using TTW. If we want to go the ini route, I will program that in and release on Monday.


The custom start quest really is the best option, the ONLY complication is the need for an uninstaller.



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chucksteel
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I think you may be worrying

Post by chucksteel » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:36 am

I think you may be worrying to much. the uninstaller is really secondary and unimportant. all someone has to do is to run the FNV launcher and, let steam update there .ini's. that solves the issue if they forgot to uninstall. 



JaxFirehart
Posts: 3003
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am

Forgot about Steam! I will

Post by JaxFirehart » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:03 pm

Forgot about Steam! I will roll out the updated ini in the next patch.



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