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"Unfortunately I´m no expert

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:19 pm
by Trm8r

"Unfortunately I´m no expert at modding, but would it be possible to integrate something like leveling speech checks?"


There's a mod here that temporarily nerfs the player on arrival in Vegas, Difficult Journey I believe. Don't know it it nerfs our speech skill though.


https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/difficult-journey-more-challenging-start-new-vegas



The only way to change that

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:44 pm
by RoyBatty

The only way to change that would be to implement Fallout 3's speech check system. I might do that as I prefer it, but most people don't.


Like I said before with the leveling, people are making assumptions.



Personally I prefer the

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:16 pm
by paragonskeep

Personally I prefer the Fallout 3 versions of speech check and repair.


 In regards to leveling I'm of the mind to wait and see. For immersion I'd love to see all types and levels all the time but I understand from a game perspective that may not be the best. I like the aspects like the Quarry in NV where the Deathclaws will own you until later in game making it mandatory to circle around it. I'm not quite done in DC currently and already maxed skills and level 50 playing on Very Hard. 


Sorry for the ramble. Keep up the awesome work Roy and team. 



I as well prefer the F3

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:31 pm
by ElectricaVulpes

I as well prefer the F3 speech and repair systems. They are not only more immersive, but also better for players who don't want to become an op god by level 50.



I don't like Fallout 3 speech

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:02 pm
by EnderDragonFire

I don't like Fallout 3 speech checks. You can save scum them at low level and never need to invest in speech. Also, they can screw you over at higher skill when you logically should have been able to pass them easily. Leave the dice-rolls in the D&D red box; honestly, it is almost as bad as Morrowind's combat. It breaks believablity when luck is the main factor in any game mechnic that is meant to reflect skill instead. I don't see what is more immersive about seeing a numer on the screen that effectivelt says "You have a 1% chance that God will intervene and mind control the person you are trying to convince" OR "You have a 1% chance that God will intervene and make the person impossible to convince despite your logic and oratory skills." 



That's metagaming hardcore.

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:33 am
by paragonskeep

That's metagaming hardcore. Also the % is a reflection that no matter how good you may be you can't convince everyone. And on the flip as the saying "even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again"


I respect your opinion, but being able to "always" something is immersion breaking for me. Every "expert" fails now and again. Even Batman loses from time to time.  



The problem is that speech

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:31 am
by darthbdaman

The problem is that speech results are permanent, in a way combat stuff is not. If you're combat skill isn't good enough and miss your shot, you might take more damage, but you'll just use a stimpak or a doctor's bag, or at worst have to reload the game, and move on. If you fail a speech check, that potentially changes the game substantially. If you fail your speech check against Lanius and have to fight him, you basically got a different ending determined by a random roll, with no chance to make it up. That isn't very fun. It's even worse when the number is on the screen.



Well, if anyone fails a

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:40 am
by Risewild

Well, if anyone fails a speech check, they can just reload too. Like the combat example, you will only survive if you have healing items, you also have speech increasing items for those occasions (magazines, increasing CHA, using some equipment, etc).


If you want to be able to pass hard speech checks, you invest in the skill. Otherwise what's the point in it being a skill anyway?


I see the cons and pros of both % and set number. And there is no "best" one. In a more P&P game system, the Skill Check makes a lot of sense, because those systems are specifically made to take into account the character failing and it has much more freedom, since the character is controlled by a real human and the game is not constraint by being in a computer game where limitations abound.


But Fallout New Vegas is too limited to implement a real P&P system, so if you fail a check, the game doesn't allow the same freedom as a tabletop game would, because there is only so much you can program.


That is why I always thought that TTW should do what FNV does, make all the speech checks a set value, but then have an optional to change it and have ALL of TTW being %. It is all about the player preference, and this is all about preference, there is not a superior or better way, they are both good and bad.



I'm in favor of having it a

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:54 am
by RoyBatty

I'm in favor of having it a choice, one way or the other.


Not a fan of NV's OP system myself, I prefer the dice roll in this case. There's always a chance IRL you can lie your way through something and also the chance someone is going to pick up on your bs. :D



Yep, but in real life you can

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:18 pm
by Risewild

Yep, but in real life you can't just reload and lie again until you manage to trick the other person wink


 


Sorry. Today I am in an argumentative mood again. cheeky


I don't care either way, I just like to spew arguments sometimes. devil