Big Guns

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IvoryOwl
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The content in NV wasn't made

Post by IvoryOwl » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:35 pm

The content in NV wasn't made with Big Guns in mind. If you're going to do this then you may have to rebalance the entire combat system and even the mobs themselves to make it work. Some people are of the opinion that having a trait dedicated to Big Guns when they're almost exclusively late-game content renders them useless because they've already spent too much time, money and points making the other types just as useful or powerful.



In that case we need to make Big Guns even more powerful than the rest but gate them behind a few game mechanics so that only players above a certain level (for example) can use them, as well having a SPECIAL minimum requirement for STR and maybe END. You could also make it so it requires proper traiting in handling and maintenance(because repairing a flamethrower or a rocket-launcher can't be as easy as repairing a simple pea shooter).



I think Big Guns should be able to go through armor better and more often than regular guns, they were made to destroy after all. What kind of armor can protect you against a rain of fast-firing bullets from a minigun or from being cooked alive by a flamethrower? Or a mini-nuke? IMO these guns should feel OP but the scarcity of ammo and high maintenance costs means they can only be used on rare occasions and not just whenever. 



 



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Damianwolff
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This has been addressed by

Post by Damianwolff » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:01 pm

This has been addressed by Roy before.


There are early level Big Guns, and there needs to be no more incentive for them to be used, than the there needs to be additional incentive for people to invest into Energy Weapons in tandem with Small Guns.



Its a role-playing choice. Brick, from Reilly's Rangers, would have still used her minigun, head she turned up in New Vegas. And it would make sense for her to more apt with it, than with a revolver or a rifle. Without Big Guns, you still invested somewhat into Explosives and Energy weapons besides Meleee or Small Guns, probably. Well, with Big Guns, you will have to forgo one of those, but you will probably have still have a back-up skill.


Big Guns offer higher rate of fire and unique types of damage (fire damage), that the other skills don't.


And there will not be a sudden major imbalance. In the world, the NPCs will be hardly different. The difference will be mainly felt in how the PC handles, and how his build is approached.


There is no point in level-locking them, UNLESS you make them more powerful, as you suggested.


There is no point in making it harder to repair them, since there are not that many of them in the game, so it already more difficult.


If you run into a raider with a minigun, how will the game balance be affected by him having high Big Guns and not Small Guns? He will probably live and die at your hand with that minigun in hand, how will you know the difference?



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EnderDragonFire
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jlf65 wrote:

Post by EnderDragonFire » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:26 pm

[quote=jlf65]


Except that the gauss rifle fires a 2mm projectile via energy cell powered magnets. I can't see any way to call it a "big" gun. It's more of a glorified dart gun.


[/quote]


Based on that logic, the Gatling Laser only fires microscopic photons quadrillions of times smaller than an atom. So, why is it classified as a "Big Gun?" Because of the size and handling of the weapon itself, not of the projectile type. It is heavy, it is crank operated, and is generally similar in its purpose to the AMR. 


We have "Big" and "Small" weapons that both fire 50 Cal ammo (12.77 MM is the same diameter as .50 CAL). We have 

"Big" and small weapons that fire .308 and .556. We have "Big" and "Small" plasma and laser weapons. The projectile is irrelevant. 


"Who are you, who do not know your history?"



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RoyBatty
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12.7mm is the same as .50

Post by RoyBatty » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:28 pm

12.7mm is the same as .50 action express, this is a hand gun round. .50 BMG is a rifle round and waaaay more powerful as it is an anti-tank round designed to pierce thick armor.


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jlf65
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Gauss guns and rail guns are

Post by jlf65 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:58 pm

Gauss guns and rail guns are NOT remotely the same weapon. Too many people (especially authors) don't put in the research and get it badly wrong. A rail gun IS a big gun... big as in FREAKING HUGE, meant to be installed on capital ships. A gauss gun is a small gun, relatively speaking, with nowhere near the damage potential. They use completely different principles to launch metal projectiles. The projectiles are also completely different.


A Gatling laser is a big gun because it's multiple laser rifles joined together, making it BIG, and held and fired like a minigun.



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darthbdaman
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Again the Gauss Rifle in

Post by darthbdaman » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:11 am

Again the Gauss Rifle in Fallout 3 is nonsense. It uses mf cells, and shoots and energy projectile, but is called a gauss gun. It's a good big gun, whatever it's called

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jlf65
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darthbdaman wrote:Again the

Post by jlf65 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:15 am

[quote=darthbdaman]Again the Gauss Rifle in Fallout 3 is nonsense. It uses mf cells, and shoots and energy projectile, but is called a gauss gun. It's a good big gun, whatever it's called


[/quote]


Yes, the FO3/NV version is clearly an energy weapon that happens to be called a "gauss" gun. I'd say rename it to something like a "gauss plasma" gun and move it to the energy weapon category. However, if you look at the model, it clearly has a magazine of the side for the 2mm projectiles, and uses the mf cell on the opposite side to power the electronics. It was an interesting idea, needing two different ammos and reload animations to make it work, but they never got around to it, so it became just another plasma gun.



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EnderDragonFire
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" laser rifles joined

Post by EnderDragonFire » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:04 am

" laser rifles joined together, making it BIG" You do realize that a laser is beam of light, yes? It's literally the smallest thing in the universe. It doesn't matter if there are dozens of them, they are still just tiny, little photons. 


 


@Roy


Fine, ignore .50 caliber. It doesn't change the fact that there are still .308, .556, and plasma/laser weapons on both sides of the Big/Small divide. Which means that ammo is not the deciding factor. 


"Who are you, who do not know your history?"



GrantSP
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I must have missed it but

Post by GrantSP » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:00 am

I must have missed it but where was said that ammo is the deciding factor. I'm pretty sure it was based on the actual size of the weapon, ie. if it takes two hands to hold. (Some leeway of course for special cases.)



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darthbdaman
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Assault rifles take 2 hands

Post by darthbdaman » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:25 am

Assault rifles take 2 hands to hold. It's about weight, size, power, etc. There is no defined criterion. It's probably bigger than a bread box though

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