Big Guns

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jlf65
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:10 pm

Yeah, I always install the

Post by jlf65 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:31 pm

Yeah, I always install the gun oil mod, then mod it some more in xEdit to add support for various custom weapons.


I know the gun condition is just a game mechanic - not a bad one either. It's just not very realistic. :)  No matter how old the gun is, it's generally either going to explode in your hand, or work perfectly, depending on how it was cared for over the years. There are lots of guns that are hundreds of years old that are still being fired today - collectors pay a LOT more for a 300 year-old gun that can still be fired than a 300 year-old piece of rust that looks like a gun. :D


My own thought for how they should have done it was the gun condition as a measure of it's cleanliness. Once a gun gets too dirty, it starts to jam, misfire, and have a chance of exploding in your hands. You clean the weapon instead of fix it. Damage CAN be done to weapons... by attacks or jamming or misfires. Once a gun is damaged, it can't be used until it is fixed by replacing parts, like a new barrel, etc.


 



Blazefan
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Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:24 pm

Weapon degradation was too

Post by Blazefan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:39 pm

Weapon degradation was too high in New Vegas? I find that it's not high ENOUGH in some cases. A lot of weapons can fire 1000-2000 times without breaking. The weapons that break after 400-700 shots I found to be reasonable enough in most cases. When a gun can fire 1500-2500 times without breaking, the repair/degradation is almost completely null and void.


Either way, I don't think repair is too big an issue for big guns. You have tons of vendors that can repair, and the parts to make your own repair kits are not exactly uncommon unless you're using some sort of loot mod. There ought to be some kind of drawback to welding the heavy-hitters anyway.



GrantSP
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Although we're probably

Post by GrantSP » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:07 am

Although we're probably geting a little off-topic now but I really like @jfl65's take on the repair system for guns. I too view the cleaning of guns as the more important aspect of their maintenance.




  • Clean == good


  • Dirty == boom in your face.



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Decker
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While it's not like it is

Post by Decker » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:57 am

While it's not like it is perfectly realistic, I've always found weapon condition reduction kind of atmospheric detail for a post-nuke game such as Fallout. Another good thing to come from having a weapon health stat is that it is actually possible to shoot at an opponents firearm and have it sustain damage or break down.


Seriously though, guns in bad condition/rusty (or very dirty inside) can and do realistically suffer from some problems like occasional jamming/misfeed or reduction of accuracy, and that is before one even considers what kind of condition the ammo is in after 200 years (might vary a lot, some of it very old, some of it newly recycled but handloaded with varying degrees of competence/success). If a gun has been handed down from one user to another in a struggle for post-apoc survival for two centuries, and thousands of rounds of varying quality have gone through it, not to mention it has propably also been used as a melee weapon occasionally, I would imagine it would not be quite as good as it was brand new - Definitely less accurate, perhaps also less reliable than it once was.


Also, IRL it matters a lot whether frex 500 rounds have been fired through the weapon in small groups over time during the last week (no real damage to the weapon, very slight accuracy reduction maybe), or machinegunned downrange inside one single minute - Sustained rapid fire overheats and damages the weapon, in some cases up to and including setting wooden or plastic parts on fire.. (This propably would not be easy to simulate in F3/FNV, so the system simply counts total number of rounds fired against weapon condition.)


Ideally, IMHO a system where 'weapon cleaning kits' could only restore weapon condition up to a limit and paid vendor services would be necessary to get the gun up to 100 percent, would seem most plausible and fair.


 



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EnderDragonFire
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:50 pm

jlf65 wrote:

Post by EnderDragonFire » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:44 am

[quote=jlf65]


I know the gun condition is just a game mechanic - not a bad one either. It's just not very realistic. :)  No matter how old the gun is, it's generally either going to explode in your hand, or work perfectly, depending on how it was cared for over the years. There are lots of guns that are hundreds of years old that are still being fired today - collectors pay a LOT more for a 300 year-old gun that can still be fired than a 300 year-old piece of rust that looks like a gun. :D


My own thought for how they should have done it was the gun condition as a measure of it's cleanliness. Once a gun gets too dirty, it starts to jam, misfire, and have a chance of exploding in your hands. You clean the weapon instead of fix it. Damage CAN be done to weapons... by attacks or jamming or misfires. Once a gun is damaged, it can't be used until it is fixed by replacing parts, like a new barrel, etc.


[/quote]


I value realism more than most people do in RPG games. I am also a real-life antique weapons enthusiast, and I can attest that a gun either works, or it doesn't work. The idea of gradual, linear degradation is largely a myth, with very few exceptions, things fail all at once catastrophically, or never fail at all. Most of the old guns that no longer exist never broke at all, they were instead intentionally scuttled by the army. 


How is this relevant to TTW? It isn't, and I beg Roy's pardon! Sorry, I just agree with the sentiment, and would love to see a well-made, fleshed out mod for TTW/FNV that makes guns work more realistically. 


"Who are you, who do not know your history?"



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Risewild
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I hate being the Big Bad Wolf

Post by Risewild » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:41 am

I hate being the Big Bad Wolf, but for discussion about new repair system mods and all of that please make a new thread on TTW Mod Requests (if requesting a new mod) or TTW Mod Talk (if just wanting to brainstorm ideas for a mod).


This will allow this thread to focus once again on Big Guns implementation and will allow the discussion about a repair mod to be made much in depth and who knows, maybe some modder will like the idea and make it happen smiley.


Thanks for putting up with me being all "Admin mode" and all of that, but i think that the discussion of a new repair system is interesting enough that a new thread about it would actually be active and could lead to something cheeky.


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EnderDragonFire
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Sorry Rise! My apologies. As

Post by EnderDragonFire » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:56 am

Sorry Rise! My apologies. As for Big Guns, I guess I second Gauss being one. It just makes sense given that the AMR is going to be one. 


"Who are you, who do not know your history?"



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jlf65
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Except that the gauss rifle

Post by jlf65 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:27 pm

Except that the gauss rifle fires a 2mm projectile via energy cell powered magnets. I can't see any way to call it a "big" gun. It's more of a glorified dart gun.



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Damianwolff
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Very glorified.

Post by Damianwolff » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:48 pm

Very glorified.


"Universal glory"-style glorified. And rightfully so. There are two examples in fiction which I can think of on the spot, which represent the type of technology we are dealing with here.


The first example, are the EM-1 railguns from the film Erazer, with Arnie in the lead role. The way they work are identical, although the specific descriptions are a bit off (writers have no sense of scale).


The second example, are your standard weapons in the Mass Effect series.


A Railgun has the potential to be FAR more dangerous than laser or even plasma weapons, with the kinetic force of a fatman loaded into a single 2mm pellet, striking the target at supersonic speeds.


Sure, the Fallout version of it is slightly less powerful, but it is still a massively effective weapon in gameplay terms (moreso in F3, where it knocked down enemies, big and small). It definitely could be a Big Gun, but not a 100 skill big gun. It probably is more weildy than a 100 skill would imply.



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darthbdaman
Gary
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The fallout 3 version isn't

Post by darthbdaman » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:54 pm

The fallout 3 version isn't the same as the fallout 2 version. We have no idea what type of ammo it uses or how it works, because bethesda didn't bother to think about it (which is why it's an energy weapon). Anyways, it's a massive rifle. If the auto rifle and amr are big guns, the Gauss Rifle really should be

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