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TheShadowPhoenix
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A possible second TTW Mod consisting of Fallout 4 and the next Fallout game (Most likely a spin off like New Vegas).

With all the possibilities this community has done with Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas, this idea struck me since there were rumors and speculation that a new Fallout game is now in development, which as I've said in the title, most likely could be a spin off like New Vegas. From what I understand, Fallout 3 and New Vegas were compatible mostly due to they're in the same game engine, which is what Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion pioneered. Looking at Fallout 4, there's little doubt that it was made on a modified Elder Scrolls V Skyrim engine. And the rumored spin off will most likely use this engine too. Which could lead later on in the future to a second TTW using those two games later down the road. I know it's too soon to tell for certain, but I wanted to share this with you all cause if it was possible to combine the stories of Fallout 3 and New Vegas into one, then what's stopping the same possibility from happening again with the two sequels to these two games? Of course, this is all just me. Who knows what might happen.

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TAWM
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Skywind has been worked on

Skywind has been worked on now for years and they are still in alpha with it not even releasing a version of it to the public to try out.  What you are talking about is something on that level of doing for a tale of three or four wastelands.  No offense but I just don't see the point in doing it.  As someone who played Morrowind when it first came out that game was awesome however that game is also really old and its showing it's age.  Fallout 3 and New Vegas while older games now don't suffer all the same problems Morrowind does...especially in regards to it's combat system.

Fallout 3 and New Vegas both still have a good modding community still supporting those two games quite well.  If you have a good rig you can get TTW to look almost like new game through texture replacers and lighting mods.  Also it's combat system isn't completely outdated like Morrowind's system is.  Can it compete with the lastest Action and FPS games?  No.  Is the gameplay absolutely horrible?  Of course not.  Morrowind on the other hand?  Well their is a reason why Skywind became a thing.  Honestly as much as I love Morrowind and have good memories playing the game even extremely modded I don't think I could do a play through of it now having not played it in over a decade. 

Maybe 10 years from now what you are suggesting will make sense but honestly I don't think it's needed at this point.  Than again I'm not part of TTW team and I have no idea what their take of this idea is.  I'm just some random guy on these forums giving my $.02 for whatever it's worth.   

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How about a Skyrim + Fallout

How about a Skyrim + Fallout 4 instead?

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skyfall sounds strange to me,

skyfall sounds strange to me, how would you combine both plots

a dragonborn-vault dweller?

i saw some some pictures of the capital wasteland and/ or the mojave recreated in fo4 which looked really impressive but i read that they stopped working on it

i still dream about A Tale of Three wastelands

even if its impossible or just to much work

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"Skyfall" James Bond

"Skyfall" James Bond reference, anyone? XD I'm just glad we're having a discussion here. Who knows really, as I've said. 

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A Skyrim/Fallout xover would

A Skyrim/Fallout xover would be a cool game. You go into the vault to escape Armageddon, and when you come out, dragons rule the land, keeping tech levels low/non-existent. You have some of the only tech in the land, and maybe know where to scavenge more from irradiated ruins. Meanwhile, you have to deal with wildlife that's mutated, creating giant cats and wolves, giant people, mutant people (orcs, etc), giant crabs, etc. It would explain why so many creatures are giant (typical in Fallout games) or missing.

Throw a few irradiated ruins into less accessible places of Skyrim, sort of like how Dwemer ruins are done. Throw in some lore about how the "elder races of men" destroyed the world in a single day ages back. Maybe replace the Dwemer ruins and Falmer with the irradiated ruins and ghouls. Maybe make orcs into supermutants.

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It seems @Rise's sarcasm has

It seems @Rise's sarcasm has escaped a few people.

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Risewild wrote:

Risewild wrote:

 

How about a Skyrim + Fallout 4 instead?

The mini nuke on the Aston Martin seals the deal for me.

<cheesy inspirational quote goes here>

jlf65
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GrantSP wrote:It seems @Rise

GrantSP wrote:

It seems @Rise's sarcasm has escaped a few people.

Not escape, inspired. He may have meant it as a joke, but it's actually not a bad idea.

Considering Skyrim SE is the EXACT same engine as Fallout 4, it should be fairly easy to put together. Less work than TTW in any case.

 

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No it's not, lol.

No it's not, lol.

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luthien wrote:The FO4 and SSE

luthien wrote:

The FO4 and SSE engines are so dissimilar that stating they are the same shows a complete lack of understanding about the topic at hand.

Can you point me to a discussion on that, because EVERY SINGLE THREAD ANYWHERE I've found on the subject says SSE runs on the FO4 Creation Engine. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong about something, but I haven't seen anything contradicting me so far on this point.

 

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Yes and CSGO runs on the

Yes and CSGO runs on the Quake 1 engine.

People that know about programming (like us) know damn well they aren't the same engine even if they have the same moniker (Creation). They aren't the same, they are dissimilar enough to be completely incapable of running the other game.

Engines are tailored to a specific game, Unreal 3 is used by a lot of games, but you can't port one of them into another because a lot of customization for that particular title goes into it. It's not some cookie cutter bullshit you go buy at the supermarket and just plug your game banana assets into and magically have a game.

Risewild
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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

 

luthien wrote:

The FO4 and SSE engines are so dissimilar that stating they are the same shows a complete lack of understanding about the topic at hand.

 

Can you point me to a discussion on that, because EVERY SINGLE THREAD ANYWHERE I've found on the subject says SSE runs on the FO4 Creation Engine. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong about something, but I haven't seen anything contradicting me so far on this point.

 

Remember that the original Skyrim also runs in the Creation Engine. Fallout 4 Creation Engine is different from original Skyrim's engine and Skyrim SE's engine.

Like Roy said, each game has their engine fine tuned and customized to serve that game's purpose and features. Just like Morrowind's Gamebryo and Fallout 3 Gamebryo for example.

 

[/sarcasm] I got an idea, why not make a project to play both Skyrim and Skyrim SE on the same game? [/sarcasm]

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To be frank (but not being an

To be frank (but not being an A**hole), the shitty story and ridiculous dialogue system of FO4 has practically killed-off any steam for a TTW-ish project for that mediocre game.

I would say it is much more worthwhile to develop our own 64bit version of TTW than a TTW in FO4....... 

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Risewild wrote:Remember that

Risewild wrote:

Remember that the original Skyrim also runs in the Creation Engine.

I know that - the FO4 Creation Engine has been made 64-bit clean and tailored for the new Fallout gameplay. That's clear in nearly every thread.

Quote:

Fallout 4 Creation Engine is different from original Skyrim's engine and Skyrim SE's engine.

Now THAT (the emphasized part) is NOT clearly stated ANYWHERE. I've only seen the contrary stated here by Roy and Luthien. Granted, they would probably know better than nearly anyone else, but I was looking for any hard info on the subject on just what makes them different, not just a "trust us - they're not the same at all".

For example, we know that although the FO4 CE is tailored for Fallout, it STILL HAS many Skyrim specific features, like shouting. There are mods that activate the shouts so that you can run around pretending you're the Dragonborn inside Fallout 4.

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Someone who knows nothing

Someone who knows nothing says something on the internet. Someone else sees that and assumes it's true, and repeats it. And it snowballs. Reading what the masses say doesn't mean shit.

TheShadowPhoenix
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Can you all excuse me for not

Can you all excuse me for not know something like this was repeatedly asked before? I must apologize if you got annoyed, but I honestly didn't know.

Risewild
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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

For example, we know that although the FO4 CE is tailored for Fallout, it STILL HAS many Skyrim specific features, like shouting. There are mods that activate the shouts so that you can run around pretending you're the Dragonborn inside Fallout 4.

Yep, and Fallout New Vegas still uses enchantments and has alchemy and stuff like that too from Oblivion.

The reason you don't see anyone mention that Fallout 4 and Skyrim SE uses different versions of the Creation Engine is because most modders do not talk about it. What I remember seeing in the past was gaming sites saying that (gaming sites have gaming "reporter", most if not all know nothing about modding or game engines) because Bethesda said that Skyrim SE would be using some improvements from the Fallout 4 updated engine.

Here, have someone else's words:

Fallout 4 simply runs on a newer engine that can do more things, most of which were not ported to the Skyrim Special Edition when the Remaster was being made. The SSE only benefited from the change to 64bit and dx11 so that the game was more stable and that it looked better graphically but that was pretty much it. Skyrim did not get access to some of the other expanded features that Fallout 4 has.

Also did you know that Skyrim SE engine was actually made before Fallout 4 engine? They only changed the engine so it would run on the newer gen consoles and with bethesda.net support, then they used that and improved it even more for Fallout 4 (but Skyrim SE didn't get most of those improvements). How do I know this? Easy, Pete Hines and Todd Howard said so on different occasions. They said that work on Skyrim SE engine was done before Bethesda even started working on Fallout 4's engine:

OXM: You’ve got some big-name games and you’ve never really fallen into the remake culture that a lot of people are getting into. Skyrim Special Edition feels like a one-off. Would you say that’s true, are you more about moving forward?

PH: Generally speaking, yeah. We did one for Dishonored but that was a unique case where it was a new IP at the very end of the last generation of consoles. So remastering it and bringing it to this gen wasn’t a ton of work and it made a lot of sense given the proximity of those two. Skyrim was more about the work that Bethesda Game Studios had done in the early days of getting ready for Fallout 4 on this generation of consoles – moving the Skyrim engine and doing some work to run it on this generation of consoles just to see how it worked, and so forth, before they started doing all their Fallout stuff. It’s the most recent thing they did.

 

When I visited Bethesda Game Studios last month, Todd Howard and other key members from the development team walked me through Fallout 4's creation. Early on in our talks, Howard smiled at me and said, "The first thing we did was port Skyrim to Xbox One." After a brief pause, he quickly blurted out, "Don't get your hopes up yet."

TheShadowPhoenix
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Risewild wrote:

Risewild wrote:

 

jlf65 wrote:

For example, we know that although the FO4 CE is tailored for Fallout, it STILL HAS many Skyrim specific features, like shouting. There are mods that activate the shouts so that you can run around pretending you're the Dragonborn inside Fallout 4.

 

Yep, and Fallout New Vegas still uses enchantments and has alchemy and stuff like that too from Oblivion.

The reason you don't see anyone mention that Fallout 4 and Skyrim SE uses different versions of the Creation Engine is because most modders do not talk about it. What I remember seeing in the past was gaming sites saying that (gaming sites have gaming "reporter", most if not all know nothing about modding or game engines) because Bethesda said that Skyrim SE would be using some improvements from the Fallout 4 updated engine.

Here, have someone else's words:

Fallout 4 simply runs on a newer engine that can do more things, most of which were not ported to the Skyrim Special Edition when the Remaster was being made. The SSE only benefited from the change to 64bit and dx11 so that the game was more stable and that it looked better graphically but that was pretty much it. Skyrim did not get access to some of the other expanded features that Fallout 4 has.

Also did you know that Skyrim SE engine was actually made before Fallout 4 engine? They only changed the engine so it would run on the newer gen consoles and with bethesda.net support, then they used that and improved it even more for Fallout 4 (but Skyrim SE didn't get most of those improvements). How do I know this? Easy, Pete Hines and Todd Howard said so on different occasions. They said that work on Skyrim SE engine was done before Bethesda even started working on Fallout 4's engine:

OXM: You’ve got some big-name games and you’ve never really fallen into the remake culture that a lot of people are getting into. Skyrim Special Edition feels like a one-off. Would you say that’s true, are you more about moving forward?

PH: Generally speaking, yeah. We did one for Dishonored but that was a unique case where it was a new IP at the very end of the last generation of consoles. So remastering it and bringing it to this gen wasn’t a ton of work and it made a lot of sense given the proximity of those two. Skyrim was more about the work that Bethesda Game Studios had done in the early days of getting ready for Fallout 4 on this generation of consoles – moving the Skyrim engine and doing some work to run it on this generation of consoles just to see how it worked, and so forth, before they started doing all their Fallout stuff. It’s the most recent thing they did.

 

When I visited Bethesda Game Studios last month, Todd Howard and other key members from the development team walked me through Fallout 4's creation. Early on in our talks, Howard smiled at me and said, "The first thing we did was port Skyrim to Xbox One." After a brief pause, he quickly blurted out, "Don't get your hopes up yet."



Thank you very much for sharing this, Risewild. I appreciate you being polite. 
jlf65
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TheShadowPhoenix wrote:Thank

TheShadowPhoenix wrote:

Thank you very much for sharing this, Risewild. I appreciate you being polite. 

Yes, thanks a bunch! This is just the kind of info I wish was easier to find. Hmm - so SSE was first, and then FO4 made changes from there. That does make sense - it was still Skyrim at that point, just with 64-bit and DX11. Then they started hacking and slicing to make it work for Fallout 4, adding the new features.

Okay, I was wrong when I said they were the same engine. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

Risewild
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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

 

TheShadowPhoenix wrote:

Thank you very much for sharing this, Risewild. I appreciate you being polite. 

Yes, thanks a bunch! This is just the kind of info I wish was easier to find. Hmm - so SSE was first, and then FO4 made changes from there. That does make sense - it was still Skyrim at that point, just with 64-bit and DX11. Then they started hacking and slicing to make it work for Fallout 4, adding the new features.

Okay, I was wrong when I said they were the same engine. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

No problem.

And yeah this kind of information is hard to come by because only some modders and Bethesda will know about it, and I am sure Bethesda will not really say that is not the same engine unless they have to.

I remember many gaming sites saying that Skyrim SE was using Fallout 4 improved engine when the game was released, but Skyrim SE uses a very bare bones version of it, it was basically a prototype that they then polished a bit so it would run properly, but never implemented the more advanced features from Fallout 4.

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Would it be possible to port

Would it be possible to port mods and features from Skyrim into Fallout 4? If I could get a ported version of Convenient Horses, Realistic Animals and Predators and Animallica to Fallout 4, I'd be very happy. I'd like just realistic animals, but I'll take mudcrabs and mammoths and saber toothed cats in the bundle/

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People have been doing that

People have been doing that for months. Just go over to Nexus and go through all the FO4 mods. Not everything can be ported, and many won't be simply because no one has an interest in doing so, but you will find some that have been ported. Some aren't ports so much as redone from scratch.

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The only thing I see is a

The only thing I see is a dance animation. I put in Skyrim and.....there's half a page, including two 'Skyrim inspired' power armors.

What can be ported? If there are shouts and enchantments still in the engine, what about horses and duel wielding? Cause let's be honest, the dual wielding combined with kill animations totally made melee combat 200% better.

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I doubt there are any usable

I doubt there are any usable horse or dual wielding related files/code in Fallout 4 or modders would have already made those happen.

Dual wielding has been something people want since before Fallout 4 was released, so if there was any way to make it happen it would have already happened.

IIRC Fallout 4 even restricts adding custom animations or something, without being able to add new animations there is no way to get double wielding or horses for that matter.

We have to be honest, Fallout 4 has a lot of modding restrictions in it and not only Skyrim has less restrictions but people seem to prefer working on it anyway. I don't think that Fallout 4 will ever have as many modders as Skyrim.

The way I see it is that Fallout 4 modding will become really slow (if not already, I haven't checked Fallout 4 mods in months) while Skyrim will continue to have plenty of mods coming out in the future.

 

It's sad but it is the way Bethesda did things with Fallout 4 modding, I guess.

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Also lets face it. Skyrim

Also lets face it. Skyrim just has a much larger following than FO so it will always have many more mods and those who create them. Personally I don't really care for Skyrim myself. I just can't get into spells and magic and crap like that. Don't get me wrong. The game itself is beautifully done. Just not my cup of tea. Though dragons are cool. 

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There is a way to do

There is a way to do animations for FO4: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/16691/?

Doesn't look as nice as FNIS, but that will probably be a while before they get it working in FO4. It looks like a number of things are tougher to do in FO4 than Skyrim/SkyrimSE. I'd guess that because Bethesda was making the modding system work on the console version as well as the PC, they restricted it more tightly to avoid any chance of the console mods being used as exploits by hackers. Sony and MS are paranoid as hell about such things.

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Risewild wrote:

Risewild wrote:

 

I doubt there are any usable horse or dual wielding related files/code in Fallout 4 or modders would have already made those happen.

Dual wielding has been something people want since before Fallout 4 was released, so if there was any way to make it happen it would have already happened.

IIRC Fallout 4 even restricts adding custom animations or something, without being able to add new animations there is no way to get double wielding or horses for that matter.

We have to be honest, Fallout 4 has a lot of modding restrictions in it and not only Skyrim has less restrictions but people seem to prefer working on it anyway. I don't think that Fallout 4 will ever have as many modders as Skyrim.

The way I see it is that Fallout 4 modding will become really slow (if not already, I haven't checked Fallout 4 mods in months) while Skyrim will continue to have plenty of mods coming out in the future.

 

It's sad but it is the way Bethesda did things with Fallout 4 modding, I guess.



To be fair, no one's put the alchemy and Dragon shouts back in the game either. I personally would rather enjoy being able to do Dragon shouts in Fallout 4,at least for lulz.

More seriously, beyond my need for a good walking simulator, I think I might actually enjoy the settlement building if I could build pretty houses and churches and taverns instead of assembled trash that pass for shack houses. I'm sure within ten years of the apocalypse people would rediscover carpentry and stone craft. So importing buildings from Skyrim would be an awesome first step.
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charwo wrote:To be fair, no

charwo wrote:

To be fair, no one's put the alchemy and Dragon shouts back in the game either. I personally would rather enjoy being able to do Dragon shouts in Fallout 4,at least for lulz.

Dragon Shouts: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/14800/?

Chemistry took the place of alchemy, with the Chemistry Station taking the place of the alchemy table. You can even harvest stuff to use at the chemistry station. It's just all "normal" stuff rather than Skyrim stuff.

 

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Huh....neat.

Huh....neat.

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jlf65 wrote:There is a way to
jlf65 wrote:

There is a way to do animations for FO4: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/16691/?

Doesn't look as nice as FNIS, but that will probably be a while before they get it working in FO4. It looks like a number of things are tougher to do in FO4 than Skyrim/SkyrimSE. I'd guess that because Bethesda was making the modding system work on the console version as well as the PC, they restricted it more tightly to avoid any chance of the console mods being used as exploits by hackers. Sony and MS are paranoid as hell about such things.

Fallout 4 actually allows far more freedom for adding custom animations then any prior Bethesda title. Mainly, this has been used to make new reload, draw, and maybe even holding animations for custom guns. Of course, the community had to hack together a solution to allow easy access to creating said animations. But, once it came about, many animated custom weapons came out of the wood work. The best part is that these animations are additions, rather than replacements.
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While a TTW style merging of

While a TTW style merging of later games might not be possible, if you really want something from an older game on the new engine, you could still use the new creation kit to make your own mod from scratch that is similar to something from an older game.  I think that's more likely than a full conversion.

For instance someone might really like The Pitt and use the new creation kit to create something similar to The Pitt using nothing but Fallout 4 assets, recreating the layout, NPCs, quests, etc.  Obviously that would be a lot more work than just tweaking an ESM or ESP from an older game and dropping it into the new one so only someone really motivated to ressurect something from an incompatible game would put the necessary work into it.

 

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khumak wrote:

khumak wrote:

 

While a TTW style merging of later games might not be possible, if you really want something from an older game on the new engine, you could still use the new creation kit to make your own mod from scratch that is similar to something from an older game.  I think that's more likely than a full conversion.

For instance someone might really like The Pitt and use the new creation kit to create something similar to The Pitt using nothing but Fallout 4 assets, recreating the layout, NPCs, quests, etc.  Obviously that would be a lot more work than just tweaking an ESM or ESP from an older game and dropping it into the new one so only someone really motivated to ressurect something from an incompatible game would put the necessary work into it.

 



Funny enough, someone made the entire New Vegas map and even a part of the Fallout 3 map in Fallout 4. Which makes me wonder: If only there was a sort of updated G.E.C.K that had some updated and easier mapping mechanics like in the FO4 Creation Kit.