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retlaw83
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New Vegas-style Speech Checks for Fallout 3 Content UPDATED 03/30/2014

Name isn't snappy, but it's the best name to use. This creates NV-style speech checks for Fallout 3, and the plan is to eventually put these changes into TTW itself once we get feedback. There are different kinds of skill checks, not just speech, and successful checks award XP.  A few things to keep in mind:

1) Most of the speech check success lines have been altered to sound more in-line with NV's tone.  The original lines are typically used for speech failures.

2) Some things that used to be speech checks are now barter checks, and occasionally science/repair checks.  This has been done at appropriate places, for example when the player negotiates a price.

3) Due to a lack of usable sound files ingame, most stat and skill checks that are not speech or barter do not have fail options.

4) Virtually all fail options and some successes do not have sound.  This is because in the future, the TTW installer should take care of this.

We're trying to get feedback on appropriateness of skill check levels and writing style.  If something doesn't work correctly, or you disagree with a check value or the way something is written, take a screenshot and post it here with your feedback.

CHANGELOG:

03/30/2014: So, yeah. Been 3 months. Fixed all issues reported and The Replicated Man checks now act like NV checks.

12/20/2013: Fixed 3 speech checks for 3 lies to Moira, and a missing condition on the fail for the check with Sapling Yew.

12/12/2013: Fixed a speech check failure not showing the pass requirement when talking to Dave.

12/07/2013: Fixed a medicine check and an explosive check with Reilly not giving XP.

File Attachments: 

TTW Version Compatibility: 

v2.1
v2.2
v2.4

Rating: 

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Edited by: retlaw83 on 03/29/2014 - 21:32
TJ
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I'm testing it retlaw.

I'm testing it retlaw.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

chucksteel
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Only have done the ones with

Only have done the ones with Moira but they seem nice. 

Delphi
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Wow, thats areally great step
Wow, thats areally great step forward. I will test this asap! Thanks for doing this :) If it is not too much to ask, I would have one (of course optional) request. There is a great mod called "No dialog tags", which makes the actual needed checks and values invisible(for new vegas). This greatly reduces metagaming and min- maxing. Would it be possible to develop this mod with an optional support for this in mind?
retlaw83
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The only way to do that,

The only way to do that, unless the guy is doing something I'm unaware of, would require editing every single dialog that's been changed. That's not something that would be a possibility until this is all finalized and merged into TTW.

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

Risewild
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Now that I managed to install

Now that I managed to install TTW again I can test this out will be back with news about it later .

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Wait... Does this make

Wait... Does this make Fallout 3 dialogue a pass or fail instead of the original percent speech checks?

retlaw83
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Yes.

Yes.

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Risewild
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Ok in my very short testing

Ok in my very short testing time I did just now the speech checks in Megaton I checked were all good to go I still have a couple of checks on Megaton that I need to test but for now I say I found no problems.

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Wasn't the percent way of

Wasn't the percent way of speech better???  It gave it more immersion by saying even if you didn't have the speech there's still a possibility of passing the check? Maybe it's just me.

LT Albrecht
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Deathclawlove wrote:

Deathclawlove wrote:

 

Wasn't the percent way of speech better???  It gave it more immersion by saying even if you didn't have the speech there's still a possibility of passing the check? Maybe it's just me.

Not really. I found it to be horribly videogame-y and susceptible to cheaping out. Also, it implies human minds work on dice rolls rather than anything to do with logic.

trollolololololol


 

TJ
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Well said LT.  

Well said LT.

 

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

Deathclawlove
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True, I guess it's just my

True, I guess it's just my nostalgia kicking in as I remember quick loading a save until I passed the speech checks.

retlaw83
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Which is what the NV system

Which is what the NV system avoids.

Also, the system in Fallout 3 is hypocritical. All of the perk and attribute and skill checks were absolute, but the speech checks were % based.  With quickloading, this gave no real incentive to up the speech skill, while say a hard lockpick didn't act in the same way.

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

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is it possible to reverse

is it possible to reverse this, and put % checks into NV?  and assuming there is, where would i look in the files to do so, for my own personal use?

perms:  either a full fireworks display spelling out "Puppettron Made This" anytime a user accesses my content in-game, or just give me credit somewhere.

help me fight starvation:  http://www.gofundme.com/vr56rc

retlaw83
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It's possible. You'd just

It's possible. You'd just need to find every single skill and speech check in NV and hit the speech challenge checkbox manually and also accept the fact all % chances will be based on speech skill - even if it's a barter check. And the barter check won't tell you it's a barter check. You'll also need to move all fail dialogs to a special speech failure topic. It's a lot more work to setup the NV ones like Fallout 3 ones than the other way around.

If you have a ton of time to burn and really want it, go for it. It's nothing that can be done automatically.

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

Delphi
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This mod is such a great

This mod is such a great addition to the game :) I tested it for quite some time, and it looks pretty good to me. One glitch I found:

When first speaking to Dave at the republic of Dave, if you don´t meet the speech requirement (50), then there is no indicator, that the first option is a speech check. If you meet the requirement, the [speech 50] Tag is there.

I hope these kind of reports are usefull. If yes, I will tell you if I encounter this again.

retlaw83
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Thanks for the bug report!

Thanks for the bug report!

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

Delphi
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I found another inconsistency

I found another inconsistency. When talking to mister crowley, you can lie to him about killing dukov for his key. The dialog is marked with [speech], but not with a value. In fact you can even succeed in this test with a speech value of 1. Perhaps thats the cause for no value appearing?

Puppettron
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thanks ret, i'll add it to my

thanks ret, i'll add it to my list of things to do on my "i want the game to function my way" personal mod.  which may never be done, but oh well.

perms:  either a full fireworks display spelling out "Puppettron Made This" anytime a user accesses my content in-game, or just give me credit somewhere.

help me fight starvation:  http://www.gofundme.com/vr56rc

retlaw83
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Sounds like I accidently didn

Sounds like I accidently didn't add a speech requirement to that. Thanks.

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

Risewild
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In Oasis there is a speech

In Oasis there is a speech check to make Tree Father Birch tell us more about Harold before we meet him for the first time, it says that it is a speech check but it doesn't show the values (the speech value the player has and the speech value needed to pass the check). I am writing this just before I go to bed so I am not sure if it makes sense the way I explained .

EDIT: Sorry but I was thinking and I got confused if that was the check or if it was one that we have with the kid in oasis, sorry I found it a while ago but got rushed out to buy some christmas presents and only came home now so I can't remember very well sorry.

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Lying to moira and telling

Lying to moira and telling her that Rivet city is an underwater society has no skill requirement.

retlaw83
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Fixed both issues, thanks

Fixed both issues, thanks guys!

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Risewild
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On the dialog with the

On the dialog with the Mechanist the speech option text reads "MS02Retire" instead of the actual text.

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Bryan Wilks doesn't appear to

Bryan Wilks doesn't appear to have the strength check of 6 to make him calm down and tell you about the ants. Also uncle Roe in CC doesn't have the speech/barter check to get more money out of him to help stop the mechanist and antagonizer. Haven't come across any others yet, this is a nice addition so far though. Also I'm not getting the option to get leskos lab coat.

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Been excellent so far, only

Been excellent so far, only found one missed check that hasn't been mentioned yet.  Asking Moira for the location of Pinkerton during the quest The Replicated Man, was still a % based check.  I'm assuming that one is easy to overlook as I think there's multiple NPCs you can do that with.

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That is actually one of the

That is actually one of the spare few we agreed fit better as a percentage check, though that may change.

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JaxFirehart wrote:That is
JaxFirehart wrote:

That is actually one of the spare few we agreed fit better as a percentage check, though that may change.

None of the ones in fnv are percentage based are they? I think they should all be NV style.
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Retlaw and I talked and we

Retlaw and I talked and we came up with good arguments for either way. Mostly it was more we couldn't think of a decent way to handle the complexity of that particular quest, considering you can speech certain information out of various people at different levels.

I am definitely open to suggestions because I agree that they should all be changed to Skill checks.

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Maybe multi-skill checks.

Maybe multi-skill checks. High Speech / Science / INT?

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Sounds interesting, example?

Sounds interesting, example?

Are you thinking like, Moira has a Science check, Eulogy has a Speech check, Doc Church has an Int check?

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Yeah, stuff like that.

Yeah, stuff like that.

There were all sorts of different skill checks through dialog in NV, not just the speech skill.

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Retlaw already did some of

Retlaw already did some of that, some FO3 speech challenges became checks other than speech (such as barter, medicine, etc).

I do like the idea of having different people for this quest needing different skills. The techs are science, the docs are medicine, everyone else is Speech, but I'm not sure how the writing for that would go.

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Maybe have multi-skill checks

Maybe have multi-skill checks for Pinkterton's Location Reveal then? Like Science/Medicine for Doctors, maybe even INT/CHR for some.

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We agree on that, what I'm

We agree on that, what I'm saying is that they would need to be carefully written in such a manner that the skill check makes sense "[Science 75] Come on you know you want to tell me!" would be absurd AND it would have to match up with the failure response. Retlaw, you feel up to it?

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A check is missing for Murphy

A check is missing for Murphy in the Murphy's Bombing Run quest when asking for an increase in caps.

Edit: Cherry is still using the percentage system.

http://imgur.com/0MKeWma

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How is this balance against

How is this balance against NV skill checks?  I ask because at some point there will be an option to start in either FNV or in FO3 from what I read and that would mean that either FNV or FO3 would have to have higher skill checks overall than the other game simply because your character will be a high level.  I realize that for storyling purposes they chose FO3 first (I think it should be reversed but I am not the modder so its up to them) so will FO3 be more geared to lower level characters?

retlaw83
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JaxFirehart wrote:

JaxFirehart wrote:

 

We agree on that, what I'm saying is that they would need to be carefully written in such a manner that the skill check makes sense "[Science 75] Come on you know you want to tell me!" would be absurd AND it would have to match up with the failure response. Retlaw, you feel up to it?

I'll give it a shot. Hopefully it can be done.

nathanj wrote:

 

How is this balance against NV skill checks?  I ask because at some point there will be an option to start in either FNV or in FO3 from what I read and that would mean that either FNV or FO3 would have to have higher skill checks overall than the other game simply because your character will be a high level.  I realize that for storyling purposes they chose FO3 first (I think it should be reversed but I am not the modder so its up to them) so will FO3 be more geared to lower level characters?

It's geared towards where the player should be in their development when they hit that section of the game, just like the NV ones are.

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

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Its working where implimented

Its working where implimented, I think it works great so far! thanks!

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Downloading now, sounds

Downloading now, sounds excellent! Will report back if I happen to find anything you guys overlooked!

zenmaster226
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Buglist: Allot of errors in

Buglist: Allot of errors in the Speech Checks from Crowley in the "You gotta shoot em in the head" quest. I forgot to get the exact ones.

retlaw83
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Could you do me a favor and

Could you do me a favor and take screenshots next time you see errors?

What were the nature of the errors you found? No skill threshholds? No XP awarded?

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

zenmaster226
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No skill thresholds, just the

No skill thresholds, just the 100% instead.

And should terrifying presence show up so much as is is for me?

retlaw83
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Should be. I changed all the

Should be. I changed all the strength-based intimidation checks from that questline into Terrifying Presence to make it more useful.

I'll see why it's still a percentage, thanks for the heads up.

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

chasing
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I forgot to take a screenshot

I forgot to take a screenshot, but I found a Speech check where it was chance-based instead of skill-based.  The NPC was Red when you're freeing her from the cell in the Big Trouble in Big Town quest.  If I remember correctly, it was the dialog choice regarding the Lipoplasticator and Graftilizer (dialog topic MS08MedicalClue4, I think).

“Beyond the reach of human rage
A drop of hell, a touch of strange ...”
- The Gunslinger

chasing
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Sorry to pile on, but I found
Sorry to pile on, but I found another one. Cherry in Dukov's Place uses a speech chance instead of skill. It's in "DukovComeWithMe" FormID xx02CD49. It looks like ttwspeechchecks_1.esp already has an override for this, but nothing was changed except to add a PNAM.

“Beyond the reach of human rage
A drop of hell, a touch of strange ...”
- The Gunslinger

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I'd also like to report that

I'd also like to report that the doctor in the Ghoul city uses the old FO3 system when pumping him for information regarding the android. I had another one, but I forgot which it was exactly.

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Thanks for the bug reports,

Thanks for the bug reports, Chasing and Oni. Keep 'em coming!

30 Helens agree that I am, pound for pound, the strongest man in a group of ducks.

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@Retlaw, I am going to load

@Retlaw, I am going to load this into my LO, but I am not quite playing yet.  I want to make sure my game is stable before going forward.

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

My new favorite, the IWI TC-21 Tavor

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Consider this a TTW sponsored

Consider this a TTW sponsored mod. It may have bugs but I can guarantee its stability.

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