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RoyBatty
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Some of it can reduce draw

Some of it can reduce draw calls.

Blur Killer doesn't affect performance.

Ordenator Texture Destroyer... crap tool to be avoided. Increases VRAM usage and lowers texture quality at the same time.

The performance guide can significantly increase performance without sacrificing anything.

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Yeah, reducing the textures

Yeah, reducing the textures does nothing for performance in most cases, it just makes things look fuzzier. The only reason to reduce textures is NOT performance, but cases where you have really small vram, like shared memory video (be it a cheap card or built in GPU like some intel and amd systems). Even then, it's not needed for stock installs. Remember that the stock game textures were designed for consoles with 256MB of vram.

The biggest jump in performance I've seen in Fallout is to kill the in-game aliasing setting and to set any aliasing using the nvidia control panel. That almost doubled the FPS in places for me. Any other performance increases came from a proper NVSR/FOSR ini file. Use one of the files from the performance page for NVSR. There's one for older processors (and most AMD processors as I found), and one for newer processors - one will work great, and the other will cause crashing (every two minutes or so in my case).

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Hmm. I did a clean install to

Hmm. I did a clean install to test various configs. Also, before i start, I should also probably go over my specs:

AMD FX-9800p2.7 Ghz Processor, 3.6 Ghz overclocked

16 GB DDR3 Ram

AMD R7 integrated Graphics (512 MB)

 

For the tests, my base was everything as described in the guide.

The various things I tried were:

My tweaked INIs without performance mods, ENBoost, and Texop - About 35 FPS

Inis with just tweaks from this guide, no perf mods, enboost, and texop - About 33 FPS

My tweaked inis seemed to decrease performance but increase stability. I chose the inis from this guide. 

Next was with performance mods, no enboost or texop - About 40 FPS

No perf mods, enboost or texop - 33 FPS

Then ENBoost - Enboost with no perfomance mods or texop - About 37 FPS

Enboost with perf mods but no tex op - About 43 FPS

Now I added in tex ops - ENBoost with performance mods and texopted NMC's small texture pack - About 50 fps

ENBoost without performance mods - about 40 FPS

 

For me, it seems to increase stability and performance. It might be all just one giant placebo though. 

 

EDIT - I should probably note that these were the peaks of FPS, not average - the more performance mods, tweaks, tex op, and ENBoost gave higher maximum FPS but decreased the overall smoothness

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There's not a lot you can do

There's not a lot you can do when you run integrated graphics.

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Darn. Well, anyway, you guys

Darn. Well, anyway, you guys did do a great job with TTW. 

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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

 

Yeah, reducing the textures does nothing for performance in most cases, it just makes things look fuzzier. The only reason to reduce textures is NOT performance, but cases where you have really small vram, like shared memory video (be it a cheap card or built in GPU like some intel and amd systems). Even then, it's not needed for stock installs. Remember that the stock game textures were designed for consoles with 256MB of vram.

The biggest jump in performance I've seen in Fallout is to kill the in-game aliasing setting and to set any aliasing using the nvidia control panel. That almost doubled the FPS in places for me. Any other performance increases came from a proper NVSR/FOSR ini file. Use one of the files from the performance page for NVSR. There's one for older processors (and most AMD processors as I found), and one for newer processors - one will work great, and the other will cause crashing (every two minutes or so in my case).

 

So I have only 512 mb of dedicated VRAM from my iGPU, should i use Ordenator?

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If you aren't adding much in

If you aren't adding much in the way of textures, no. Like I said, stock graphics were designed around 256M of vram. If you run mods that add a lot of graphics, you have two choices: scale the textures, or use ENB so that textures get loaded into another process space. Note that if you use ENB, textures will need swapping, and things will slow while it does so. Also note that you can do BOTH, scale the textures AND use ENB to supplement the vram. That's what I did on Skyrim back when I was using an AMD APU with integrated graphics. I did try FO3/NV with scaled textures... it didn't make much difference - not like in Skyrim. But then, I wasn't using mods with tons of added textures in FO3/NV like I was in Skyrim.

It doesn't take too many replacers to blow out your vram on integrated graphics. With FO3/NV, a Type 3 clothes/armor replacer can pretty much kill all your vram. That is one thing I did use ordenator on for FO3/NV - the clothes/armor replacer. I did the same with Skyrim for Immersive Weapons and Immersive Armors.

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RoyBatty wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:

 

As for NV optimized and Performance of the Gods and similar mods, I've never understood the reasoning of removing content to add content... the ones that delete records are bad.

INI tweaks are mostly placebo, or harmful. Never touch ugrids, or cell buffers. I've not tested background loading enough to make a determination. The other multithreading settings should not be touched, most of them aren't used by the engine anyway.

Performance can increase with ENBoost because MSAA (quite taxing) is disabled, among other image effects. It also breaks any image space modifiers in the game which are used for various things. I don't personally recommend it.

Texture "optimizers" do the opposite, they are crap, avoid.

Performance can increase with ENB for several reasons.

The first, is that it recompiles the shaders for SM 3.0, IIRC.

The EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks setting stops the engine from loading the textures and models of rendered objects into RAM, then into VRAM. It's similar to what D3D 11 improved on; rather than having textures and meshes mirrored in RAM first and then into VRAM, just put it all into VRAM. Even with vanilla meshes & textures, stutter is greatly reduced. I'd never play without this enabled.

ENBHost is an alternative to EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks. Instead of preventing VRAM mirroring, put the mirrored meshes and textures into seperate processes. Performance doesn't increase unless you are using a hefty texture replacer. The main benefit of this, is to allow for many more high resolution textures as the GPU will also page into ENBHost.exe without causing crashes due to FalloutNV.exe's memory cieling.

As for it disabling imagespaces, that's due to ENB preset authors removing the #define APPLYGAMECOLORCORRECTION variable in enbeffect.fx. Simple fix: put it back in.

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Now if you can just get him

Now if you can just get him to make the option like skyrim has to disable any rendering hooks.

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RoyBatty wrote:Now if you can

RoyBatty wrote:

Now if you can just get him to make the option like skyrim has to disable any rendering hooks.

Yes, I'd love to see an update to the FO3/NV ENB... it's a bit dated at this point. Skyrim ENB has received a number of updates just recently and is now up to 319.

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Boris already updated it the

Boris already updated it the other day. Now we are able to modify lights like in Skyrim's. Nvm, what was added were lighting parameters for objects that emit light, not lights in general.

You can also just disable all the effect hooks in the ENB, or does that still drag the lower end GPUs down?

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Holy cow! An update to the FO

Holy cow! An update to the FO ENB!! Thanks for pointing that out - I just checked it a couple days ago, so I wouldn't have checked again for another month or two.

 

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Skyrim version has

Skyrim version has UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics option, if this were in F3/NV version it would be great.

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So, for INI edits, these do

So, for INI edits, these do nothing or are harmful?

 

bDoSpecularPass

iMinGrassSize

uInteriorCellBuffer

uExteriorCellBuffer

bUseHardDriveCache

bBackgroundLoadLipFiles

bLoadBackgroundFaceGen

bBackgroundCellLoads

bLoadHelmetsInBackground

iBackgroundLoadLoading

bBackgroundPathing

bBackgroundNavmeshUpdate

bCloneModeisinBackground

bUseThreadedBlood

bUseThreadedMorpher

bUseThreadedTempEffects

bUseThreadedParticleSystem

bUseThreadedAI

bUseMultiThreadedFaceGen

bUseMultiThreadedTrees

bMultiThreadAudio

iNumHavokThreads

bUseBackgroundFileLoader  

 

So these do nothing?  

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iMingrassSize works

iMingrassSize works

bUseThreadedAI and iNumHWThreads are essential changes

the rest are placebo or shouldn't be altered from stock values

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Did some testing,

Did some testing, bBackgroundCellLoads works and somewhat alleviates load hitching

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Would it be safe to say then,

Would it be safe to say then, that the other background load lines work too?

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No. Most of the others are

No. Most of the others are not used by the game.

You can find a list of ini settings the game never uses here https://geckwiki.com/index.php/Unused_INI_Settings

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So, these are the most

So, these are the most updated performance instructions for FNV, right? There are so many "performance" guides that I found on the internet and I am not sure which one should I follow...

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This is the most up to date

This is the most up to date yeah, there's a slight bug in the NVSR profile, I'll upload a fixed one later.

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<script> </script>
Alright, thanks for the reply and for keeping this up to date.
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updated newer processors ini

updated newer processors ini

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ENB for New Vegas was just

ENB for New Vegas was just updated. Now you get that UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics feature.

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Really? Where? I just checked

Really? Where? I just checked and .322 is still the latest.

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Might I ask what
Might I ask what UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics does?
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CVB_Taihou wrote:

CVB_Taihou wrote:

Might I ask what UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics does?

In the Skyrim version of ENB, that turns off all video post processing. The Fallout 3/NV version can have processing effects disabled, but still does SOME post processing, like messing with the AA.

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Really? about time!

Really? about time!

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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

 

Really? Where? I just checked and .322 is still the latest.

 

The name of the setting is UseENBoostWithoutGraphics

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So you add it into the ini

So you add it into the ini and it works? It's not part of the ini files and not in the readme. Did you read this on the forum, or did you just try adding it?

 

 

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Try redownload the zip file.
Try redownloading the zip file. Boris reuploaded it without a version change.
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So I just downloaded the last

So I just downloaded the last ENB version(322) and dragged d3d9.dll, enblocal.ini, and enbhost.exe into my FNV root folder. Then I set UseENBoostWithoutGraphics to true in enblocal.ini. Is this the proper way to install ENBoost, or do I need to make further modifications in the enblocal.ini file?

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CVB_Taihou wrote:

CVB_Taihou wrote:

Try redownloading the zip file. Boris reuploaded it without a version change.

Ah, that makes sense, then. Thanks.

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xQdcss no you need to set the

xQdcss no you need to set the vram setting too and turn use effect off.

I tested it and it causes the same stuttering and poor performance when moving the camera around as it always has, so I removed it again.

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RoyBatty wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:

 

xQdcss no you need to set the vram setting too and turn use effect off.

I tested it and it causes the same stuttering and poor performance when moving the camera around as it always has, so I removed it again.

How bad is the stuttering your experiencing? Is it when turning and looking from different directions? or constant?

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In my experience, there is

In my experience, there is only constant stutter when turning the camera if [n]DisablePreloadToVRAM[/b] is set to true.

Conversely, having EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks set to true greatly reduces both stuttering and cell loading hitching that is present in vanilla (i.e, no ENB installed).

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MajinCry wrote:

MajinCry wrote:

 

In my experience, there is only constant stutter when turning the camera if [n]DisablePreloadToVRAM[/b] is set to true.

Conversely, having EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks set to true greatly reduces both stuttering and cell loading hitching that is present in vanilla (i.e, no ENB installed).

I've noticed when quickly turning in various directions that if ReservedMemorySizeMb was set too low I get a short, consistent lag. Setting this at 512Mb (atm) eliminates the problem; this particular card has enough memory to set that value fairly high.

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MajinCry maybe you could make

MajinCry maybe you could make a short guide for ENBoost with UseENBoostWithoutGraphics because there is so much conflicting information and misinformation about the use of ENB it's massively annoying to try and get it setup correctly especially since boris doesn't give any decent documentation.

Also it was UseOriginalPostProcessing for the image spaces and stuff right?

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@MajinCry

@MajinCry

Can I follow the STEP Enboost guide for skyrim with TTW?

According to it, I have to disable almost every option in the enblocal.ini but you say enableunsafememoryhacks should be enabled. I too would appreciate a short enboost guide. (no need to rush of course)

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@Mystical Panda, that is the

@Mystical Panda, that is the default setting, so no surprise that it works best.

 

I'll share a couple different ENBLocal.ini files, each for different situations to give an idea on what users ought to have.

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MajinCry wrote:

MajinCry wrote:

 

@Mystical Panda, that is the default setting, so no surprise that it works best.

 

I'll share a couple different ENBLocal.ini files, each for different situations to give an idea on what users ought to have.

Thanks for the ENB knowledge! Especially when 'banking' textures in VRAM as opposed to boosting it through multiple copies of ENBBoost; I've tried both, but eventually just went with the multiple copies. I'll change that this afternoon and see how just caching it in VRAM does.

I tried settings 64mb, 128mb, 256mb with stuttering being more apparently towards the low end when quickly turning about; 512mb seemed to provide the least (which is why I suggested bumping it up and seeing if it resulted in any gains, since many guides on the internet suggest lowering it to 64mb or 128mb- apparently the newer versions were 'better' coded than the original ones requiring more, thus the suggestion to reduce it and often times there's no indication of what someone was using as their 'default'). I read where it was used as a 'buffer', of sorts for 'bursing'? IIRC.

I'm glad Boris is providing more support for FO3/FNV (though he really doesn't seem to care for them), his 'boost' feature really does come in handy at times.

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You have to watch the

You have to watch the dedicated size for integrated video. AMD APUs only get 384M of ram to use as VRAM, so setting to 512 won't work. Not sure what limit Intel sets on their integrated video.

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@ MajinCry

@ MajinCry

I'm wondering, after this initial test, if disabling the video driver is actually required- I've read where Boris recommended it for older 'buggier' drivers (not more recent ones), but this is the lastest one and I have no idea if that's required for 'disabling' texture caching in older versions of DX. He had it set to true by default. If so, it would make that setting required if just buffering textures. It also makes me wonder if it's required to prevent FNV interaction with the graphics driver period, though going through the enb dll should do that or if he's patching something on the 'fly' which disables or NOPs code that would call the 'shadowing' functions.

For this test, I disabled ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=false. I also dropped the 'reserved' vram down to 128mb.

If you notice the ENB settings (enbconfig.txt), with just EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=true within a very short time (game log at the bottom- game-test.txt), I start getting "out of memory" hits which eventually crashed the game. Up until that point, everything seems to be working ok for about 7+ hours of testing.

This might be because of I didn't disable the graphics memory driver also, but last time I tested that particular feature (just a few weeks ago), I picked up a slight performance hit; so I opted to use the newest video driver for my card (NVidia GTX 1060 6g- it's fairly modern so the driver should be relatively good). Using MSI Afterburner (which doesn't cause a problem for me, at least from what I've been able to tell- no crashes in countless hours using it on FNV unless caused by bad or missing assets or memory issues), the total ram usage never really goes over 2.5+ or so gb with the highest hitting around 2.9gb.

Let me switch back to ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=false and give it another quick test run. Windows just updated a day or so ago and it couldv'e caused a problem with one of the existing memory 'tweakers'.

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What happens if you set

What happens if you set ReservedMemorySizeMb=512?

Edit: Also, what operating system are you using? If it's Windows 10, I wouldn't be surprised if shit's just wonky because it's, well, Windows 10.

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MajinCry wrote:

MajinCry wrote:

 

What happens if you set ReservedMemorySizeMb=512?

Edit: Also, what operating system are you using? If it's Windows 10, I wouldn't be surprised if shit's just wonky because it's, well, Windows 10.

It's Windows 7 Ultimate (all updates applied- the Windows 10 breakdates thank goodness won't apply), Steam Version of FNV. Let me post the load order I'm testing, this way you can see the version of all the mods including NVSE, JIP, ENBSeries and everything that doesn't show up in just a load order (plugins list). It'll show all assets installed (via symlinks for loose and normal copy for plugins and bsa archives). The plugins and bsas are dated to the load order.

In this second test, you can see the bottom a 20+ minute test, same areas as before (loaded save from Mojave Outpost, killed ants then went to Nipton- in the one that crashed, I didn't quite make it through the ant quest at Mojave Outpost), but no out of memory problems.

Let me run another test, then break out and see how many host.exe are running- the VRAM usage (according to MSIAfterburner) was 2.6-2.9gb so there should be at least 2 enbhost.exe running (last time I checked they were cap at about 1.9gb before starting a new instance). I'll also set reserved back to 512.

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@ MajinCry - Here's the

@ MajinCry - Here's the results for the next test; same everything as the previous, stable (no out of mem hits), but no enbhost.exe processes in the task list. This def implies that setting EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=true might indeed disable using enbhost processes (just buffering in VRAM). But it might also be something else, not sure just yet.

What, at least to me at the onset, looks strange is that enbhost.exe (by not being present as a running task while the game is running and using 2.5+gb of graphics memory), it's not using enbhost at all and just caching things in the card. Which, it very well could be (I don't know his code), since the card has ample enough memory in and of itself to load all the textures needed for a given area (even modded). Thus enbhost.exe wouldn't need to be fired off at all until gpu memory runs out then it buffers everything in system ram.

However, if that were the case (everything could be buffered in gpu memory), I shouldn't have gotten an out of memory the first time around (I know you were thinking burst memory wasn't enough, and that might a possibility). By leaving all the settings the same, but setting ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true and running the same test again, we're now stable. Ok, so no enbhost.exe was running, enough graphics memory but crash when one is false and the other is true, but no crash when both are true. This, at least to me, implies there's more his code is doing that just what is documented.

Here's what I think is happening...

EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=true should keep DX from using the game's executable virtual memory space from using it's memory to 'shadow' textures.

ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true should be using enbhost.exe to 'shadow' textures (probably other data also, meshes for example.), instead of the game's executable.

In both cases, where reserved memory was 128, one crashed, the other was stable. No enbhost in the mix, and safe hacks should trump reduce system usage. I think it's doing both. The out of memory was due to the game itself hitting a memory wall (shadowed texture wise), which was fixed by using reduce system memory. And the other, allowed the gpu VRAM to get stuff, but never full since it had enough for what was being asked of it size wise.

Let me try another test with memory sampling and see what the results show. It should show the game's memory getting tanked (which would be my first assumption based on the above results).

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@ MajinCry ... here's another

@ MajinCry ... here's another quick test; same everything as before (only thing changed was a single enb setting- reduce system memory usage). The first test (test1.jpg) using:

EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=true

ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=false

The second test (test2.jpg) using:

EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=true

ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true

You can see on the first test, the virtual memory used by the game (in green) is spiking towards the limit 3.35gb (this one had reduced system memory usage = false), and that's just loading up a game save just outside of Nipton and walking a few feet (vram @ 2.3gb). An out of memory is coming shortly.

The second test (test2.jpg) shows the same game load and distance traveled but were peaking around 2.42mb   It, at least to me, looks like each does a completely different function; one shadows the textures, the other attempts to tank out the gpu vram without using enbhost (one never fired off for me). But... this really all depends on the system, gpu and the conditionals in his code that check all that stuff.

Also, when I use the reducesystemmemoryusage=true, I do get a noticable fps increase (as opposed to setting it to false). Disabling the graphics driver in lieu of his code will give me a noticable fps drop, but I'll test in a bit and see if the memory usage maps show up different (this will tells us if that's required for enablesafememoryhacks to do job of both.

Without knowing what hooks what, and how the game hooks work together or circumvent each other, this could be something that just works in this combination, but shouldn't (not intended), but does kinda thing; enb, nvac, nvse, nvsr and any others that 'hook' the game. 

I hope of these test are helpful.

[Edit] Oddly enough, MSIAfterburner reported about the same vram being used in both tests. This to me impiles that shadowing of graphics memory in the games virtual memory space is just being 'disabled' not 'redirected'; disable shadowing since we need to page/redirect textures to enbhost any ways (depending of gpu of course).

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Mystical Panda
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Here's the result of test #3

Here's the result of test #3 using:

EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=true

ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=false

DisableDriverMemoryManager=true

You see the virual memory for the game starting to spike up just after loading a saved game, and walking a few feet. The disk usage would be lower than the first test, I'd imagine, since it's using buffered data (I'm pretty sure I have set to use the drive cache- no problems with that so far. It might not matter if Windows does this automatically, therefore I could see an ini setting that isn't used by the game, yet still seems to work since windows would do it- no need for redundant code). The vram used was just about the same as the others (a few mb difference between them) as reported by MSIAfterburner. So using the disabling the graphics driver, didn't really help (the default settings) when used in conjunction with enableunsafememoryhacks.

I'm still leaning towards two separate functions, two separate uses. But that just a quick analysis from the few tests I did. For me to be stable, I need to have both reduced and unsafe set to true, though I'm sure setting unsafe to false would also work fine since the biggest problem, at least for me, isnt gpu vram, but tanking out the game's virtual memory space.

I hope that helps some- back trying to figure out a way to search 'massive...MASSIVE' catalogs quickly and efficiently without using canned things like MySql, etc.,. without time-consuming temporarily building search specific catalogs (which I might have to eventually settle on) on the fly.

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MajinCry
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It's bizarre that the two

It's bizarre that the two settings need to be used in combination for the best result. The ENBHost.exe process is tied to ReduceSystemMemoryUsage, and that's where the models and textures are mirrored into (rather than into FalloutNV.exe). And EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks disables the mirroring entirely (identical to D3D 11's usage of VRAM; no mirroring into RAM).

Mystical Panda
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I wonder if he did a kind of

If he was shooting for both functions to do the exact same thing, in a way, it could just be a bug or anomaly (not necessarily a true bug, but an unexpected result- which still might be considered a bug, depends).

I wonder if he did a kind of 'addendum' type thing- initially conclude that all that needs to be done to 'extend' memory is offload data onto 'hosts', then later added something to disable shadowing or caching of textures in system memory. Or vice versa. It's like they both do different functions, but can be combined. Most just used reduce memory usage (which fired off multiple copies of the host), which seemed to work. Then later he designed an alternative, but built it into an already existing code structure creating a distinct difference between the two, yet the latter not being fully independent; neither do the work of both.

In some of the previous tests I did (before these) when I was looking for a good balance, I did have unsafe memory hacks disabled (used just reduce system memory enabled) and everything seemed to work fairly rock solid with no out of memory issues. It was when trying to fallback on just the unsafe hacks I hit an out of memory. 

Doesn't Boris have a 1-2gb NVidia graphics card? I wonder what the tests would be using one of those; to be stable though, it'd still have to use multiple copies of host for really really large texture sets since there just wouldn't be enough vram for an area. Otherwise an out of memory crash is pretty much guaranteed.

Here's my initial thoughts on the better fps, if this holds true...

1) By loading everything on the card, there's no copying data from the multiple hosts or system memory to the gpus memory saving cycles for other threads and processes. This would especially hold true for those cpus with a lower ipc or fewer cores (interrupts eating or compounding the overall time slice).

2) By reducing virtual memory for the game (reduce system memory usage), there's more room for other types of data like lists, arrays, objects and the like (maybe more npc data, things like that). If not tanked with tons of scripts, less the game has to juggle working size wise. If that makes sense.

3) When you look at the memory map for test1.jpg, the game figured virtual memory was just about tanked so it tried to load balance the data, and these constant 'checks' or scanning of the lists, were taking away from the fps (I'd venture a guess of about ~10% to the negative). That would seem a very logical possibility.

When I get a bit more time I can do more testing and see what kinds of results we could possibly get. It's np, just need to kinda slice back and forth between the different things as we go.

RoyBatty
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So I did some testing, the

So I did some testing, the turn hitching is gone with unsafe memory hacks enabled. But I can see absolutely no FPS increase or notice any other changes really, also the game fails to launch half the time with windowed mode enabled. I guess this is more for people with older or weaker machines, it's of no benefit to me it seems as the game runs identical other than some input lag with this enabled and the launch failing. I also noticed the anisotropic filtering forcing can be disabled and it will use the game setting instead which has less banding.

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