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TAWM
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TTW MCM

Just curious what all is now going to be toggleable in the TTW MCM in 3.0?  I know it's going to have

 

*more cooking options

*xp reduction

*bobblehead rebalance

*armor optional

*fallout 3 repair

*weapons that ignore DT/DR

*Supermutant, mirelurk, albino radscorpion DT on/off

*fallout 3 VATS settings (I believe you all stated this would be toggleable)

*perk per level

 

Not sure about if books restoration and companions optional will be toggelable or not.  Is Big Guns going to optional and will that be toggelable throught the MCM?  Just curious what all else is going to be in the MCM for the next release of TTW.  

 

TTW Version Compatibility: 

v2.9

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RoyBatty
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There is no MCM for any of it

There is no MCM for any of it. It's only plugins again, mostly because I have a different idea for optional integration that we'll get to later on.

There will be no toggling of DT for creatures anymore either, AP rounds are in the game for a reason. Also the weapons were rebalanced to NV standards which compensates a bit for that.

Ignore DT/DR is a bug fix and enabled by default. Same for the projectile fix.

Books have been restored, magazines (placed in the world) are now optional instead and books give 1 or 2 points like they did in Fallout 3.

More Cooking items has been integrated (after some cleanup), I see no reason not to do this as it brings things to NV standards. If anyone is going to whine about using camp grills somewhere in Vegas they couldn't before I'll just be shaking my head at them because that's silly.

So that leaves XP reduction, Fallout 3 repair, Bobbleheads (which will be integrated when finished), Armor, VATS and Perk Perk level (and possible Grim Reapers Sprint restore in it).

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What does the VATs plugin do?

What does the VATs plugin do?

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catcameback wrote:

catcameback wrote:

 

What does the VATs plugin do?

It returns VATS system to the FO3 version.

It's an option for people who want TTW to be more like FO3 was .

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Ooh, okay. Appreciate the

Ooh, okay. Appreciate the answer.

TAWM
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RoyBatty wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:

 

There is no MCM for any of it. It's only plugins again, mostly because I have a different idea for optional integration that we'll get to later on.

There will be no toggling of DT for creatures anymore either, AP rounds are in the game for a reason. Also the weapons were rebalanced to NV standards which compensates a bit for that.

Ignore DT/DR is a bug fix and enabled by default. Same for the projectile fix.

Books have been restored, magazines (placed in the world) are now optional instead and books give 1 or 2 points like they did in Fallout 3.

More Cooking items has been integrated (after some cleanup), I see no reason not to do this as it brings things to NV standards. If anyone is going to whine about using camp grills somewhere in Vegas they couldn't before I'll just be shaking my head at them because that's silly.

So that leaves XP reduction, Fallout 3 repair, Bobbleheads (which will be integrated when finished), Armor, VATS and Perk Perk level (and possible Grim Reapers Sprint restore in it).

 


Okay thanks for clearing that up because on the Home section the armor optional is still stated as being adjustable via MCM the same goes for weapons that ignore DR/DT.  

 


I'm glad your bringing books back (I think the magazines in NV are useless personally) I'm looking forward to having reasons to go out and explore certain areas of the game again for the skill books. 

 

I do have a question though regarding the Armor option pluggin, XP Reduction pluggin and Perk Per Level pluggin and that is why not just integrate them into the main game? 

 

Perk Per level isn't going to break the game and you can get the mod delayed level up and can select 3 perks per level if you want.  Or if you view one perk per level as being to much you can change it to get less than 1 perk per level via Project Nevada so I'm kind of surprised your bothering to make it optional.  I'm glad to see you are thinking about returning Grim Reaper Sprint to how it was in Fallout 3 (I take it that's what you meant) since Obsidian decided to nerf the perk in New Vegas.  

 

The armor option pluggin is just adding negative reactions from NPCs to the enclave power armor to give it some downsides and expanding the raiders to have Pitt Armor, Metal Armor and Gamma Armor.  I can't see people freaking out over that since it just adds more diversity to the raiders in the capital wasteland and makes them less of a joke at higher levels.  

 

Last but not least I'm surprised your bothering to keep XP Reduction an optional.  Between both main games and all the DLC you need to reduce XP or raise the level and skills cap or else you can end up in the Mojave with a maxed out character from completing all of Falout 3 and it's DLCs.  You actually need to change how XP and leveling works for TTW since it's two whole games plus DLC for both of them so just playing vanilla in regards to XP doesn't work right for TTW.   

Risewild
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TAWM wrote:

TAWM wrote:

 

RoyBatty wrote:

 

There is no MCM for any of it. It's only plugins again, mostly because I have a different idea for optional integration that we'll get to later on.

There will be no toggling of DT for creatures anymore either, AP rounds are in the game for a reason. Also the weapons were rebalanced to NV standards which compensates a bit for that.

Ignore DT/DR is a bug fix and enabled by default. Same for the projectile fix.

Books have been restored, magazines (placed in the world) are now optional instead and books give 1 or 2 points like they did in Fallout 3.

More Cooking items has been integrated (after some cleanup), I see no reason not to do this as it brings things to NV standards. If anyone is going to whine about using camp grills somewhere in Vegas they couldn't before I'll just be shaking my head at them because that's silly.

So that leaves XP reduction, Fallout 3 repair, Bobbleheads (which will be integrated when finished), Armor, VATS and Perk Perk level (and possible Grim Reapers Sprint restore in it).

 

 


Okay thanks for clearing that up because on the Home section the armor optional is still stated as being adjustable via MCM the same goes for weapons that ignore DR/DT.  

 


I'm glad your bringing books back (I think the magazines in NV are useless personally) I'm looking forward to having reasons to go out and explore certain areas of the game again for the skill books. 

 

I do have a question though regarding the Armor option pluggin, XP Reduction pluggin and Perk Per Level pluggin and that is why not just integrate them into the main game? 

 

Perk Per level isn't going to break the game and you can get the mod delayed level up and can select 3 perks per level if you want.  Or if you view one perk per level as being to much you can change it to get less than 1 perk per level via Project Nevada so I'm kind of surprised your bothering to make it optional.  I'm glad to see you are thinking about returning Grim Reaper Sprint to how it was in Fallout 3 (I take it that's what you meant) since Obsidian decided to nerf the perk in New Vegas.  

 

The armor option pluggin is just adding negative reactions from NPCs to the enclave power armor to give it some downsides and expanding the raiders to have Pitt Armor, Metal Armor and Gamma Armor.  I can't see people freaking out over that since it just adds more diversity to the raiders in the capital wasteland and makes them less of a joke at higher levels.  

 

Last but not least I'm surprised your bothering to keep XP Reduction an optional.  Between both main games and all the DLC you need to reduce XP or raise the level and skills cap or else you can end up in the Mojave with a maxed out character from completing all of Falout 3 and it's DLCs.  You actually need to change how XP and leveling works for TTW since it's two whole games plus DLC for both of them so just playing vanilla in regards to XP doesn't work right for TTW.   

Not integrating those things is because it would be feature creep on NV. Which TTW shouldn't do unless it is necessary or not very intrusive. TTW is supposed to be very customizable in the future, people who want those things will be able to do it easily and without much effort (they will have the option to do it out of the box).

Also not everyone plays the same way, while you might see the advantages of having perks every level and lower xp gain, many players prefer how NV does those things (there is a reason why FNV is still way more popular than FO3 and why TTW was created in the first place).

For example, I know many players who hate with a passion the "getting a perk per level" (not to mention that would throw NV balance even more out the window), others prefer to adjust XP in different ways using other mods (like PN) that do it differently.

The way I see it, when players are playing TTW for the first time, they should go "wow, I am playing FO3 with all the nice things from FNV!" it should feel like FNV and be familiar to those who love the game. If players want to feel like they are playing FO3 or a mix of both, then there are all the cool options that TTW 3.0 will have for that .

I love how customizable TTW 3 will be, I was always of the opinion that TTW should allow a player to make it very FO3 style or make it a mix of both game systems if they want to , but "vanilla" TTW should play the closest possible to FNV out of the box.

 

Now that I think about it, I gave so many suggestions for optionals for TTW 3 that Roy was probably going crazy with all of what I suggested . Some got approved and some got denied, but still... I will always try to suggest more optionals down the road whenever I think of any. Customization is really a thing I am passionate about in TTW.

TAWM
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Rise honestly the reason why

Rise honestly the reason why I'm a little surprised by perk per level pluggin and xp reduction not being added to main TTW is the fact you can already adjust these things via other mods like delayed level up making it where you can get 3 perks per level and project nevada where you can set it to where you only get 1 perk every 5 levels.  Project Nevada you can adjust combat xp to 200% or you can reduce xp settings to 10%. 

 

Basically I'm surprised you all decided to make those pluggins if you all weren't thinking about just merging them into TTW main down the road since those two pluggins do what Project Nevada and other mods already currently do.  I figured you all were thinking about changing the perk settings to one per level like Fallout 3 and making xp reduction part of ttw main since you can hit level 50 just playing the Fallout 3 side. 

 

You can already adjust these things via other mods so considering there is already some feature creep in TTW with the added armors and in TTW 3.0 more cooking options is getting merged directly in TTW, skill books are returning in 3.0 and Roy stated bobblehead is being integrated so that is why I asked about Armor optional, xp reduction and perk per level since while they would be feature creep in TTW we already have that going on anyhow and if it was added it can already be adjusted via other mods except for the armor optional pluggin.   

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We don't treat TTW as a mod

We don't treat TTW as a mod though, we treat it like it's own game. I've tried very hard to make the game fun for both NV and F3 players out of the box with no modifications and balanced as close as I can to make it feel right for both wastelands. This is not an easy task, and adding the optionals upsets that somewhat.

I mostly agree with Rise, there are some exceptions to it in how I feel Fallout 3 should play but nothing major. When it's out people are free to do whatever they want.

I'm not really revealing any more plans publicly because people take the ideas and upload half baked poorly implemented versions to nexus and it really burns my motivation to continue working on the project.

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TAWM wrote:

TAWM wrote:

You can already adjust these things via other mods so considering there is already some feature creep in TTW with the added armors and in TTW 3.0 more cooking options is getting merged directly in TTW, skill books are returning in 3.0 and Roy stated bobblehead is being integrated so that is why I asked about Armor optional, xp reduction and perk per level since while they would be feature creep in TTW we already have that going on anyhow and if it was added it can already be adjusted via other mods except for the armor optional pluggin.   

But those are mainly feature creep on the FO3 side of TTW. We shouldn't change anything major that affects the FNV system, but we should change anything in FO3 to make the entire game more balanced. For example, the more cooking options only change BBQ grills, which there aren't many in NV (I think there are around 10 and almost half of those are in Honest Hearts) and it is just to add the cooking system to them, they still look the same and are not affecting the gameplay in extreme ways like changing the XP gain or perk rate.

Like you said, people use other mods to do stuff, if we change the way that stuff is done in TTW, it might conflict with those other mods people use (for example, XP reduction in the old TTW optional works differently from how it works in PN, so it wouldn't replace it) then people would get confused why weren't they getting the XP they expected after installing PN. Again, if people want those things, they have the option to do so.

Changing skill books is returning a change that was always controversial (and that the team never liked) from previous TTW and that confused a lot of players (during the years we had a lot of people coming and ask why we removed this book and not that one, or where can they find a specific book now), we always try to find ways of not have to remove anything from FO3 if we can avoid it.

Changing the Bobbleheads is because FNV already has the Implants that do the same, and it is easy to get all the SPECIAL maxed without the Bobbleheads if the player really want to max them (and once again, it only edits FO3).

More armors in FO3 was adding something that really doesn't need to be added, was added for flavor (and it is too feature creep to be in base TTW), and so, it should be optional, and once again it only edits the FO3 side of the game.

The only change that really affects FNV side of TTW (in a more extreme way) is the change of the Skill Points per Skill Book used. I will be honest and say I don't like that change, but we really have no choice there. If we don't do this we can't revert the Skill Books from FO3 (which I consider more important) because the Skill Books cause a big problem in TTW, it is damn easy to max all the skills before reaching level 50.

One can say that reducing the XP is helping in the same way as making the skill books give less points, because it is easy to reach level 50 in TTW. But while these issues seem similar, there is a big difference. You have to keep playing and gaining experience to reach level 50 and you can still play the game until and after you reach level 50 normally without be really broken. But if you max your skills by (let's say) level 30, then you will have a broken system when you level the next 20 levels and can't assign any skill points. And this would happen with or without slower XP progression.

I am not arguing here, I am just trying to explain why some things are optional and why some aren't . I just woke up so I am not very good at communicating and I don't want people to think I am yelling at everyone like a grumpy old guy .

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I was going to change the

I was going to change the game setting for books depending on what wasteland you're in, but that is too easily exploited by not using the books and just taking them all to NV and then using them. The books with the perks from OWB are still there and you can max your skills that way too provided you have enough wonderglue to do so. In this particular case I can't make it work both ways without creating another set of books that is scripted which I just don't want to do because it causes other problems and creates more incompatibilities. Also you can still max all your stats (even with Big Guns re-enabled) with the books as they are and using the appropriate perks.

Sometimes we just have to make compromises that affect NV even if undesirable. From a player perspective Risewild is completely correct in that removing the books and replacing them with magazines detracts from the allure of exploring areas as the rewards for doing so are removed. This is something that Fallout 4 did in it's design with the legendary system instead of unique items and it just doesn't work on several levels.

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Roy Said: "Bobbleheads (which

Roy Said: "Bobbleheads (which will be integrated when finished)."

Bobbleheads are going to become fully integrated? As in, a non-toggleable part of the main plugin? That means, IIRC, that getting 10 of all SPECIAL without implants will be impossible. Implants can only be gotten in Vegas, so people who only play the Fallout 3 side of things will not be able to max out their special. Is this intended, or am I missing something? 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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I get 10 in all special every

I get 10 in all special every game and never use the implants, wired reflexes or any of the other special rewards. Also before Lonesome Road (and I fixed the lockup bug with that).

A combination of Intense Training and Almost Perfect works every time.

That said, the old Bobbleheads will be optional instead.

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I use More Intense Training

I use More Intense Training as well as one special point per three levels (via leveling mod).

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I use More Perks, and if in

I use More Perks, and if in the past Intense Training was a go-to perk for me, with the choices in More Perks it is really hard to choose it now. 

I just love how great the mod is for customizing your character, and yet how situational the majority of the perks are, which makes them situationally useful and mostly not OP

 

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EnderDragonFire wrote:

EnderDragonFire wrote:

 

Roy Said: "Bobbleheads (which will be integrated when finished)."

Bobbleheads are going to become fully integrated? As in, a non-toggleable part of the main plugin? That means, IIRC, that getting 10 of all SPECIAL without implants will be impossible. Implants can only be gotten in Vegas, so people who only play the Fallout 3 side of things will not be able to max out their special. Is this intended, or am I missing something? 

 

You have the perk Almost Perfect that gives you a 9 in all specials that are below 9.  So that means you could set your intelligence, Endurance and Luck to 10 wait to level 30 and just go out and do certain quests that boost your stats via perks like Ant Sight Perk which would give you 10 to perception Reinforced Spine perk which will give you a 10 to Strength and you get a perk at the end of Lonesome Road that will allow you to get 1 special point which you can use to put into Agility.  For Charisma you can take one rank of Intense Training perk and you will have all of your attributes maxed out.  

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Anyway getting back to what I

Anyway getting back to what I was talking about earlier in the thread.  I know you all are trying to go for game balance in regards to skill points and everything else...but isn't that basically impossible at this point without massively overhauling both fallout 3 and new vegas side of the game?  In reality playing this game not even trying to power game your going to get over 100 in every skill unless you go out your way to gimp yourself.  I think most of us use mods like MMM and others just to up the difficulty of the base game which is needed because you will eventually become a god in the game. 

 

Technically you can gimp yourself with Project Nevada lowering how many skill points you get per level and getting only 1 perk every five levels and you put the game setting to very hard turning the game into a giant survival simulator...however that's not something a lot of players are going to do let alone want to do.  Not trying to pick a fight here with this post nor am I trying to beat a dead horse just stating that balance without massively overhauling both wastelands probably isn't going to be remotely achieveable.  I know Roy has talked about a rebalancing mod for both wastelands that scales with you as the player...however unless it overhauls pretty much everything I don't think you will find a balance.  I mean lets be honest the mojave as of right now in the current version of TTW is a joke in comparison to the capital wasteland in terms of difficulty.  NV would have to be massively rebalanced and not just the capital wasteland in any such mod.  

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I don't understand what your

I don't understand what your question or point is.

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tawm, roy said the old

tawm, roy said the old rewards of getting bobbleheads is still an option. He didn't just convert it to those perks and call it a day. we still got the option of the original stuff.

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There are mods available to

There are mods available to make the Mohave much more difficult in terms of enemies and new locales. The World of Pain mod is one I can think of. As far as experience and leveling too quickly, a simple edit to experience needed to level is what I use. Currently over a hundred hrs in and still only level 10 with 4x the experience needed to level.

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I just drain all my stat

I just drain all my stat points with modav down to 0. I only leave myself with 15 stat points in the three things I tag or if I use skilled. I also tie my skill points to intelligence. 

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One of the surefire ways to

One of the surefire ways to make the game more difficult, is to use PN to make health independent from level, and only dependent on endurance for player and characters, disable weapon damage scaling based on skill level (accurasy and swing only), use BLEED, and use a mod that forces the character to retrieve all their gear after FNV quest starts.

Played it like that, felt awesome.
Another good thing is that it really ties your game to proper gear (works best if you have something like Convinient Accessories installed, for belts, pouches, bags, and the like) and weapon mods. You end up valuing those things so much more, and they become integral to effective survival both in DC and in NV.