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Greslin
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TTW Fallout Plot Convergence

As I've mentioned here lately, I've been engaged in an effort to figure out a lore-friendly way to mesh both ends of TTW into a single storyline with a single protagonist.  I'm a writer by profession, so I spend a LOT of my time thinking out logical inconsistencies in narratives.  So the more I played TTW, the more the idea intrigued me.

After quite a great deal of Fallout storyline review, I think I've arrived at a way to make it work.  This "Convergence" mod attempts to implement these story changes in game.

I see this as a long term effort, and this initial release is just the very beginning, so it's really for the curious and brave only.  I'm open to ideas and comments, with one fundamental caveat: they can't make significant deviations from established Fallout lore (as documented by GECK, in-game material, the Fallout wiki or the Fallout Bible design documents).  Lore isn't perfect, but if you have a basic issue with it, your issue is with Black Isle/Bethesda/Obsidian and not me.

If you want more details about the storyline changes I'm making, click through. 

So like I said, it's not complete but it's a start.  Play it if you want, ignore it if you want.  I'll keep working on it. :)

 

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Well, I agree with almost

Well, I agree with almost everything. Good project, anyway. ;)

The only thing that made me confused - the first change under the spoiler. So could you please explain the reason of doing so? (here or in PM). :)

Thanks.

Greslin
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magnumspec wrote:

magnumspec wrote:

 

Well, I agree with almost everything. Good project, anyway. ;)

The only thing that made me confused - the first change under the spoiler. So could you please explain the reason of doing so? (here or in PM). :)

Thanks.

I felt it was necessary given the plot developments on both ends of the story. 

"Is there panic when it starts turning dark
And when evening shadows creep, do I lose any sleep over you?"
- Ink Spots, "Do I Worry"

JaxFirehart
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I personally love your

I personally love your reasoning there (which I think I've said in the past). I gotta say, though, that the 3 year gap just isn't enough for how much history the courier is supposed to have, that is the main reason that we increased the gap. The courier has the option to make responses that imply him to be well traveled, and the events of the Divide are unlikely to have happened in just 3 years. Just some thoughts.

Greslin
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We'll see.  So far I haven't

We'll see.  So far I haven't found any drop dead issues, but I concede that I may be missing something.  I will say this though: I think's it's pretty well established that LW/C isn't a homebody (hence, "Wanderer").  If he/she is fairly consistently moving, the player could cover a lot of ground in three years.  I'm also not above fabricating backstory elements to suggest that the player may be full of it in telling tall tales of the "past" (which is also a pretty significant component of Old West culture, ala Cormac McCarthy).

If absolutely necessary, I'll simply adjust a few nonessential dialogue lines.  I'm not worried about very minor deviations, so long as they don't impact significant lore events or the story arcs of other established characters.  All I really have to do is drop in a few "you seem to be a bit full of shit" lines among some NPC topics, and imply a bit that the player - much like the Remnants - prefers to not talk up his/her origins as a Vault Dweller. Then he becomes an unreliable narrator who prefers to be mysterious about his past, favoring myth instead.

In general, I'm trying to mess with the storyline as little as possible, while still achieving the aim.  The nine year gap upsets the plot in a major lore-breaking way, and there's no four-year video.  Aside from Ulysses, who only met the Courier a few years before FNV events, are there any NV characters with established experience with the player prior to 2277?

Regarding the Divide.. according to the Wiki, Ulysses discovered the Divide community somewhere between 2274 and 2277, and the Courier's involvement there happened after that but before Ulysses' return to Caesar in 2277.  So there may be a minor lore bump necessary to make the Divide events happen in 2278-9, but hopefully one that can be accommodated with minor dialogue adjustments.  Again, we'll see.

 

"Is there panic when it starts turning dark
And when evening shadows creep, do I lose any sleep over you?"
- Ink Spots, "Do I Worry"

JaxFirehart
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What you are missing is that

What you are missing is that the Courier didn't just make a delivery to the Divide he was a founder and a big part in it's development. Because he was a founder and 2274 is a potential date for Ulysses visit, the Divide must have not just existed but also have flourished by that point. In order for the Courier to have wandered America AND founded the Divide by 2274, he would have had to leave DC by 2272, if not earlier. TTW solved that issue by simply pushing the events of DC back 6 years. While it is definitely not canon we couldn't find any anachronisms.

Of course this is your mod and I am not trying to tell you what to do,  I just want you to understand that there was a great deal of discussion on the matter before settling on 9 years.

Greslin
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Thanks for the info.  If I

Thanks for the info.  If I end up having to re-push it to 9 years, so be it.

"Is there panic when it starts turning dark
And when evening shadows creep, do I lose any sleep over you?"
- Ink Spots, "Do I Worry"

tact
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the security console in the

the security console in the garage is in a weird location. (the halfway inside a metal beam)

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I had an idea for a mod a

I had an idea for a mod a long time ago that would add in a dead body to the end of a dungeon or something somewhere in DC. This would be Courier 6, having come to DC to hunt the platinum chip (which, in this somehow made it to dc). Once the player has the chip, they could then be escorted to NV.

I would want the player character to feel inclined to take up the mantle of Courier 6. I don't yet know what the reason would be, but I am not opposed to recording dialogue for it. This way we aren't trying to retconn courier 6's past with the LWs.

Anyway, just an idea. I will definitely use this if I never get around to making my mod.

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I also found the security

I also found the security console to be jammed halfway into a metal beam and was wondering if there was any kind of fix for this? It isn't mod breaking but it does take away from the value of finding vault 112 being locked.

paragonskeep
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JimmyFraska wrote:

JimmyFraska wrote:

 

I had an idea for a mod a long time ago that would add in a dead body to the end of a dungeon or something somewhere in DC. This would be Courier 6, having come to DC to hunt the platinum chip (which, in this somehow made it to dc). Once the player has the chip, they could then be escorted to NV.

I would want the player character to feel inclined to take up the mantle of Courier 6. I don't yet know what the reason would be, but I am not opposed to recording dialogue for it. This way we aren't trying to retconn courier 6's past with the LWs.

Anyway, just an idea. I will definitely use this if I never get around to making my mod.

This may be on another thread, but I seem to remember reading something along those lines. That the LW meets C6 and assumes his "mantle and mission" and that the original C6 is who Ulusses is talking about. But honestly haven't played that DLC yet so........

If life is but a test, where's the damn answer key?!?!?

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I must say I like that idea.

I must say I like that idea. It would make the two games go together quite well. Especially since Ulusses as far as I remember never actually saw your character before lonesome road and just knew of you being Courier Six.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
- Rick James.

Chaophim
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Seems to me (a fellow writer)

Seems to me (a fellow writer) that one of the best ways to 'bridge the gap' would be to make a quest that would give a reason to board the train beyond "Oh look...a train!  Let's get on it for nine years."  (I know the nine years isn't literally 'on the train')  It doesn't make sense to me that someone whose 'main' quest is to find their dad would suddenly drop their hunt and vanish into the desert for who knows how long.

The idea of the Platinum Chip is a great start in that direction.  An idea that I had would be a 'wild goose chase' quest for things the dad might need for the purifier to work but that you never actually get (think along the lines of the 'fix the staff' scavenger hunt from Skyrim's "A Night To Remember" Deadric quest.) because either you couldn't find them during the nine years or something happened to them or whatever.  Lots of targets out there to send the Wanderer to find like maybe "Need special cog from H&H tools", "Need special aqua-robot from RobCo", "Need programming advice from Mr. House", etc., 

The reason I suggest the wild goose chase is that, until it is explained to you in FNV, the chip is 'just a chip'.  Maybe a Holodisc in Caesar's bunker or House's house (would make more sense to me going to the latter) could explain how the chip ties in to Vault 112 in DC as well as the power systems in the Mojave?

You could then have an "Encrypted Holodisc" handed back to you by Doc Mitchell, along with 'what you had on you' that would explain, in diary format, a bit about what happened during those years.  Not enough to be 'spoilers', mind you, but enough to explain a bit about the Lonesome Road events (even for those without the DLC) and how the Wanderer got a job as a Courier in the first place.  Something believable, like 'needed money', 'nobody looks at the mailman', 'Mojave Express credentials might get me into places that just 'walking in' would not', 'good disguise', etc., without ripping a page out of the Fallout-ish Kevin Cosner movie "The Postman" where he just found a uniform and put it on. 

Now, the reason I say 'encrypted' holodisc is that Doc Mitchell is...a doctor.  Not a hacker.  He's up front and honest with the player about peeking at the note in the hopes of an ID, but doesn't seem to be the type to say "I accidentally hacked the password on the holodisc to see if it said who you were" and he never specifies what else, besides the note, you had on you. 

Not sure how it could be done, but you could also possibly have a "Ruined Pip-Boy 3000" in the inventory that, when 'equipped' nets you the holodisc (and your data off of the old Pip-Boy), thus explaining why doc would give you his old one.  (I haven't played that far into TTW to see how that's currently explained)

Those are just some thoughts I had.  If they help, awesome.  If not, ignore 'em. :)

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I like the ideas of this

I like the ideas of this thread very much.  I definately would be impressed with a story cohesion.  I like the idea of the Wanderer taking up the mantle of Courier 6.  And i like the idea of not being able to progress waters of life until you've dealt with Benny. 

Possibly having the train disabled until Waters of life sends you to new vegas? 

Also i think i read somewhere about a possible cross wastelands radio station?  I dont know how hard this will be but I think this could work wonders to fill in the stories between the two.  Have a custom DJ etc (using music on free domain) commenting on the events of both wastelands.

Something like WKLM Radfree Radio with your host Nuclear Bob or some such thing.

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A cross wastelands station

A cross wastelands station would have to have some serious equipment to broadcast over that range.

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I had started work on a

I had started work on a station called mothership radio. A new NPC begins broadcasting radio using a new radio room in mothership zeta. The premise makes sense and I would love to do it, but lots of other stuff to do as well.

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Actually Tricky AM can fairly

Actually Tricky AM can fairly common. KMOV out of St Louis can be heard in DC after 8 pm(due to other station sign offs)

If life is but a test, where's the damn answer key?!?!?

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Also weather/clouds have

Also weather/clouds have something to do with radio range, etc., if I'm not mistaken.  God knows that nuclear fallout would probably play hell with the upper atmosphere as well, giving a semi-plausable explanation for the range.

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someone mentioned in another

someone mentioned in another thread (cant recall which)  about the fact that after 9 years the DC Wasteland doesn't change.  I wondered if it would be possible to incorporate mods like Arefu expanded and the like to actually kick in after the 9 year gap of the initial travel so in the case of Arefu.  Its the vanilla version,  then after the 9 year trip in the mojave you come back and its now the Arefu expanded version (or another mod enlarging/expanding it your choice really) and doing the same for other areas etc

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That would be a vary

That would be a vary interesting thing to do as a TTW mod.  Maybe do Megaton and a few other places as well?  Potentially a scripting nightmare, I know, but tossing my $.02 into the pot nonetheless.

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Chaophim wrote:

Chaophim wrote:

 

Also weather/clouds have something to do with radio range, etc., if I'm not mistaken.  God knows that nuclear fallout would probably play hell with the upper atmosphere as well, giving a semi-plausable explanation for the range.

You are not mistaken, Ham radio operators here in the Pacific NW can (with proper atmospheric conditions and luck) communicate with Australia. Nuclear winter conditions (if you're into that dead/washed out wasteland instead of the greener Chernobyl vibe) ought to give radio signals a nice bounce, maybe even coast to coast.

Chaophim
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One thing I'd enjoy, even if

One thing I'd enjoy, even if it wasn't a global thing, is to maybe give Three Dog and Mr. New Vegas copies of each other's discographies, so that there would be a mixed variety in both places instead of the same five-ish songs played over and over ad nauseum.

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While it's true that Dad can

While it's true that Dad can stay in stasis indefinitely, and I do like the idea of the Lone Wanderer picking up Courier 6's mantle and mission, there are still several issues that come up from leaving for 9 years.

For one, the children in the Capital Wasteland. Little Lamplight might not be an issue, assuming the Lone Wanderer doesn't visit before starting Picking up the Trail. That can be forced by just locking the door to Little Lamplight somehow and arranging for the key to be given to the player when it's appropriate. The real issue with is with the other children: the slaves at Paradise Falls, the children in Megaton, the Republic of Dave, and Rivet City, as well as Bryan Wilks and Arthur Maxson. If the Lone Wanderer leaves for 9 years, none of them should be children anymore. I don't know how best to deal with that issue.

The other issue is with Trouble on the Homefront. The quest starts after the purifier is activated, which doesn't mean it'll be active where the convergence/divergence takes place, but, to me, it makes more sense for Amata to send a distress signal to the Lone Wanderer shortly after leaving the Vault, rather than over 9 years later. A possible solution to that issue is to move the quest up until the LW is getting ready to leave on the train, rather than after they've been gone for 9 years and picked up a whole new identity on the other side of the country. Completing the quest just before leaving also gives the LW a second reason to leave. After seeing an impossible to open lock where their dad is, the Lone Wanderer decides to follow up on a rumor (or something) about an Old World train that is still somehow operational that can take them anywhere (or something), but gets a distress signal from Vault 101, so he/she turns around and goes right to the Vault, which is when Trouble on the Homefront happens. But after being forced to leave the only home they've ever known, the Lone Wanderer walks back to the train, desperate for a new life; a new identity. This would require filling in the gap between leaving DC and becoming the Courier, but seeing the Securitron console at the Fort brings back the memory of an identical console in Smith Casey's garage, which prompts him/her to return to DC with the platinum chip, and the rest of the events of Fallout 3 follow.

I think it has the makings of a good and viable convergence, but still needs some work. Plus I might be biased.

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All things considered even if

All things considered even if you truncated the trip down to 3 years, with like 1 week on the train, a year and a half working in the Divide and another year just roaming the NCR and Mojave territories as a courier you should still kind of auto fail pretty much every quest you're on. Unless you don't think about it that much. But we're already over thinking it in the first place to say there's a 9 year gap at all.

Probably the easiest reason to get on the train is something to do with the BoS or even more likely, the Outcasts. Because they are definitively the strongest link going back out that way. With the Outcasts in particular having the goal getting back in touch with the West Coast BoS, a plot thread that doesn't really go anywhere in Fo3 and is easily tidied up in the context of actually traveling out that way, considering the Brotherhood is in no condition to send aid to the Outcasts in the first place. With the time spent out west, being mostly time spent actually trying to track down an active bunked and working to pay your way.

I would also on top of that it would make sense to have the train it's self break down for a while. Or run out of power, and just adding a quest to get that going again.

But all in all there's no "Nice" place to connect the two games smoothly except for the post-game of Broken Steel. Everywhere is going to make no sense. Leaving you dad to just be gone, leaving his body and mind to atrophy, walking away from the war with the Enclave after they kill him. Fo3's story doesn't really have any "down time" in it, at all.

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Also, how did Liam Neeson get

Also, how did Liam Neeson get into Vault 112 if you need the Platinum Chip to get inside?

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Perhaps it was sealed after

Perhaps it was sealed after him entering it.

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I was playing around with the

I was playing around with the idea of the FO3 quest first somehow directing you to Vault 22 in the Mojave. Given the fact that life appears to be springing forth with no apparent source of sustenance it's not too unreasonable for it to have been considered a possible place where a working GECK was. So one option might be to have a new scientist in Rivet City direct you to the train station and Vault 22. This then would be another impetus for lowering the time gap from nearly 10 years down to something much shorter. It would also explain why Benny was able to get the drop on you; if you were some serious badass from the Capital Wasteland by the time you decide to take the trainride, it makes no goddamn sense that a bunch of punks like the Great Kahns could possibly get the drop on you, left alone actually subdue you. Making the time gap small enough AND pointing you to the Mojave early on in the FO3 main quest fixes all the problems at once =D

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I like the concept of this

I like the concept of this mod and reading the spoiler and all the comments certainly has my interest peaked and started researching the idea.

first, you were right to reset the gap from the nine years to that of fallout lore's original 3 years. Personally, I don't find it completely impossible that the three years between the two games could turn the LW into the the Courier, and in fact, it would be ludicrous for it to take longer than that. Hell, the LW (my character and play through) managed to help every settlement and Joe Smoe who asked for help in the wasteland, wiped out the settlements that enjoyed committing crimes against humanity, helped found 2 or 3 settlements such as Big Town, Canterbury Commons and Arefu, gave the wasteland FM radio, wrote a best selling book, scourged the entire mall and DC for every prewar document and piece of unique history and prewar tech like it was an episode of American Pickers, destroyed the Enclave remnants of the powerful U.S. government, brought stability and security to the wasteland by promoting the BOS, completed and activated the scientific marvel that is clean water, was abducted then took over an alien spaceship, liberated the Pitt, took a vacation to Maryland, and still took the time out of his day to complete his bobble head collection all within a month and a half of time. He's surely a go getter if there ever was one.

However, The immersion and lore breaking with making it a requirement to get the chip to get into vault 112 is rather problematic and opens up way to many plot holes and time inconsistencies. Fallout 3's story stands stronger on its own than with a combination of New Vegas' story elements and would instead benefit from a story where the LW has done all that he can and now must move on to find a sense of purpose. This is far better and more realistic rather than go to new Vegas, do everything there, and then come back to finish a war that came to a head 3 years ago, THEN make your way back to finish ANOTHER WAR to complete the game. Honestly, that's just silly, finish the first world's largest candy bar before you open the other one! The Enclave, brotherhood, and the rest of the wasteland certainly would not have waited 3 years for you to come back. The brotherhood would have continued to struggle, the Enclave would have used their access to the satellite missiles, superior numbers, and advanced tech to wipe out the pentagon now citadel, and the entire plot of fallout 3 would be destroyed with continuity errors as well as the fact the there isn't much of a change to the dc in 3 years which would be even more lore breaking than the initial problem of making the LW into the C. These things could be avoided if you changed it to make only a few weeks or a month go by in traveling from DC to New Vegas (which is possible), but then the lore of all the previous events of the courier are destroyed, as well as the wonderful opening cinematic to fallout new Vegas, which would be cannon breaking.,  with that said, it would be more lore friendly to restrict going to new Vegas until after most of that is completed.

So If you would all humor me, and I apologize for the length of the post, this is my suggestion for continuity.

The LW becomes an honorary member of the Brotherhood of steel. Because of his effective tenacity and loads of talent for getting monumental tasks done, he is officially assigned to report to the west coast for Elder Lyons [I'm sure the west coast branch would love to hear about the devastation of the last Enclave splinter along with the tech for vertibirds, mobile fortresses, military launch codes, water purification, *Vault Locations and effective contents*, Weapons research, (the list goes on)] and so the LW makes his way to the train station which is the only way out of the area. Now surely, There isn't a cross continental bullet train railroad that conveniently takes LW from DC to Las Vegas, and even if there was (after all, this was 2077 with everything nuclear powered, so it is plausible) certainly the subway/rail system isn't intact. so for a few days the lone wanderer travels via train until he no longer can, and travels from place to place, possibly hitching a ride from another brotherhood base (since he is a member) to take a land vehicle or some form of air craft (Note 1:vertibirds weren't fully integrated into the us's military yet and only the Enclave had access to any functioning models) (Note 2: fallout tactics already proved that central U.S. branches of the BOS had access to vehicles) going to several states, cities and central hubs (which the courier claims to have traveled to) until finally reaching California, with the trip lasting roughly a month, so we're now looking at late November early December 2277. after completing his task but noticing the dramatic differences between the BOS west and east coast branches, he decides to go lone wolf and do his own thing. So the LW bums around California since he left all his family, friends, home, and life behind, and now must begin to forge a new one. He goes helping people or killing them as he often does, and takes up a little side quest to do some delivery jobs, and a special one for the NCR. he delivers this package in a week or two, and promptly sets out on his way. new year 2278 comes along, and the LW now courier simply takes it easy for a period of time. Does his delivery job which keeps him housed, fed, and his fancy power armor, gauss rifle, and favorite unique Chinese assault rifle in repair in California. Due to his continuous travel, he decided to set up a nice little safe house to store most of his gear on the border between California and Nevada so he doesn't have to carry his 2000 lb gun, armor and misc collection around all the time, for convenience and safe keeping, should he ever need any of it on his journeys. one day in 2181, the courier now gets an odd package, somewhat low paying for his standards, but simple and seemingly threat free. optimistic, he sets out with a light amount of his usual equipment, traveling light since walking through the Mojave desert "almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter" when he is unfortunately drugged, and knocked unconscious by the notorious drug cartel known as the Great Khans, who specialize in chems and drugs (possibly at the bar of the Mojave outpost while he stopped in for a roofied atomic cocktail). The story then picks up from the opening cut scene, the stories remain in tact, And the LW is proven to be the Courier.

Now of course this story has some issues but on the other hand it doesn't for a few reasons:

first, JaxFireHeart, while I sincerely respect you for TTW and all the work you've done for it, you are incorrect. Ulysses does state that the courier is the "founder" of the great divide and that he was responsible for it. however this is a false interpretation in cannon that he actually founded the community. What Ulysses meant was that the courier was the founder of the divide as it stands now, since he was the one who delivered the military hardware to the NCR who had previously annexed it and had control over the area for some time. because of his actions, the courier practically demolished the entire place and made it as it was now. This is also why Ulysses decides to nuke the Bear, not only because of his alliance to the bull, but also because they were the ones who had called for the package and most likely activated it causing the devastation, though this is speculation as nobody knows who actually activated the device. So it could be completely cannon for the LW/courier to arrive in late December 2277 and then continue on his way before everything was destroyed.

second there are some dialog options that would require the LW to be much older such as coming across the mysterious stranger's son, or dialog where the courier says he hasn't been to some place for a long time, but has definitely been there. Now the great things about these things is because they are always optional dialog, especially ones added by perks or special/skill checks, they are not necessarily cannon to the couriers past, which can change depending on your personal play style, such as an intelligence check that makes the courier go from not knowing what fish are to knowing a lot about them and having seen them before. the variables in the couriers past causes the game cannon to often contradict itself and these dialogs could easily be changed to fit both my version of the story, fallout lore, and the existing voiced dialog without much trouble. instead of saying that "I haven't been to New Reno in a long time," the LW/courier could say "I haven't been to New Reno in a few years" which is essentially the same line but fits the story line.

third, if you add in that safe house bunker to the mod, and script it so you can dump all the player's 20000lb collection of junk they want to take with them, (or just everything they have on them when they leave DC), then the game can follow established cannon at the cost of the LW/C just being an unprepared moron for not walking around in his winterized t51-b with an assault rifle on his courier job. he just has his caravan outfit, a gun or two, and a broken pipboy that got shot at one too many times. Wake up in doc Mitchell's with a little amnesia (that OTHER lump of brain the doc had to take out [this kid sure has had a lot of brain surgery, its surprising he wasn't a lobotomite before Old World Blues] just happened to be the part that remembers your papa's face and where you grew up), gives you your stuff and a new pip boy, and you're on your way.

Again sorry for the LONG POST but I have a strong opinion and idea of how it should be done to make everybody happy, and it would be easier to change a script or two, restrict travel until after the Capital Wasteland, write some journals, rewrite a few words in some dialog, build a nice little player house to dump any OP gear, and play the game logically than messing with a lot of quest scripts as well as a bunch of lore that can easily be broken. I Seriously appreciate it if you took the time to read this far, and I hope maybe you use these ideas or rewrite them to your taste. Thank You

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Long post alert!

Long post alert!

I like a lot of your ideas, but I think it would make more sense for the trip out west to be an Outcast mission, since the Lyon's had abandoned their original mission of finding tech in exchange for controlling D.C., but the Outcasts are still dedicated to retrieving tech and restoring the world. 


I also think the journey taking a couple years and the courier losing/selling all his things from D.C. makes sense, after all he is leaving his life behind and moving on. Maybe he just couldn't find the supplies or caps to keep the power armor in repair or he was ambushed and it was stolen or any number of things that could have happened over his journey.

The thought of leaving the Capital Wasteland for a while before completing the mission to find Dad and restore order to the wastes could make sense if done right, but it would have to be a really solid story. Maybe a note left to House in Smith Casey's Garage (maybe on a dead body or a terminal or maybe even a dead Securitron), the note could mention RobCo's involvement in Vault 112's VR tech and mention thanks for their continued funding towards providing G.E.C.Ks to various vaults including Vault 8 and Vault 22. Maybe it would mention an override in the lock if you have the access chip. After leaving the Garage, and losing hope of finding Dad since your lead just went dry, you get a Pip-Boy message from Amata asking for help. The message inspires you to return to a life in the Vault (since that's what Dad always wanted for you) unfortunately, Amata asks you not to return ever again. You step out of the Vault for the second time and receive a call from the Outcasts (although this may work better if you completed OA or are friends with them via trading) asking for your aid in repairing a Pre-War railway that leads West. After a short fetch quest, you decide that maybe heading West is the right thing to do, Dad abandoned you at the Vault, Amata kicked you out, and you never felt at home in the Capital Waste. You set off looking for a home and a job while heading from BOS outpost to BOS outpost delivering news from the Outcasts to the BOS about tech and life in the CW. Eventually you settle in the Mojave, about as far form D.C. as you can get, and take up a courier job, you get an odd job to deliver a chip (something that sounds oddly familiar to you) and get attacked and shot in the head. Doc Mitchell playing around in your brain bring back just as many memories as it takes away and your suddenly filled with the realization that the chip might be what you need to get Dad out of Vault 112 and so you set out to find it. You may be in a new Wasteland, but you know two things: You have to find this chip to get to Dad and that War, war never changes.

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dnxyken wrote:first,

dnxyken wrote:

first, JaxFireHeart, while I sincerely respect you for TTW and all the work you've done for it, you are incorrect. Ulysses does state that the courier is the "founder" of the great divide and that he was responsible for it. however this is a false interpretation in cannon that he actually founded the community. What Ulysses meant was that the courier was the founder of the divide as it stands now, since he was the one who delivered the military hardware to the NCR who had previously annexed it and had control over the area for some time. because of his actions, the courier practically demolished the entire place and made it as it was now. This is also why Ulysses decides to nuke the Bear, not only because of his alliance to the bull, but also because they were the ones who had called for the package and most likely activated it causing the devastation, though this is speculation as nobody knows who actually activated the device. So it could be completely cannon for the LW/courier to arrive in late December 2277 and then continue on his way before everything was destroyed.

Do you have a source for that?

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Like Greslin said, it's all

Like Greslin said, it's all in the wikis

Ulysses:  http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ulysses

The Divide:  http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Divide

Courier:  http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Courier

Navarro: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Navarro

It's never explicitly stated that the courier literally founded the community (which would be a big gap in information if he did and the wiki didn't include it), but in the Navarro article, it does say the courier was "returning to the Divide again." However, he is a courier, he never stays in one place anyways, is well traveled having been to most of the settlements on the western united states, and wouldn't have time to found anything or care too much about the politics of the area.

although, now that I reread it, maybe late December 2277 is too little time. the game is not very month-specific, so rolling back the clock of LW's escape from vault 101 to February or March instead of August would be a good fix. 2 months to conqure DC, 2 months to travel strait to California (not staying in one place for more than 2 or 3 days but still exploring the many settlements including the divide), 2 weeks to take up the NCR courier job and complete it, a few days of caticlysim, 3 weeks for Ulysses to heal, 5 days to make it back to Caesar (the courier travels from New Vegas to the Divide in 3), and 2 weeks for Ulysses to take up his new assignment and head out to the Great Salt Lake.

The only reason I don't necessarily care for the Outcast outlook being the sole reason for travel is that it would require the LW to be more involved in their ongoings. They barely trust wastelanders to shine their power armor, "and that's pushing it," (lol, that dlc was fun). It would be completely out of character. No way would the send a wastelander they don't even trust all the way out to the west coast for a report, unless you make a mod that overhauls your relationship with them and go through some convoluted initiation (which they wouldn't believe in anyways because outsiders are not allowed to join, the reason they split from Lyons in the first place). Besides, because they don't have as much of a hold on DC, the western BOS doesn't know about this split, And Lyons is the one they assigned to the mission (and certainly delivered, they got vertibirds and a literal walking tank for Atom's sake!), the logical reason to leave would be an official report from Lyons describing the Outcasts split, the securing of the DC, wipe out of the Enclave (which the outcasts don't care about, but the western BOS certainly would!), and a tech report to make the west coast happy, along with all the other news I previously posted.

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Like Greslin said, it's all

Like Greslin said, it's all in the wikis Ulysses: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ulysses The Divide: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Divide Courier: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Courier Navarro: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Navarro It's never explicitly stated that the courier literally founded the community (which would be a big gap in information if he did and the wiki didn't include it), but in the Navarro article, it does say the courier was "returning to the Divide again." However, he is a courier, he never stays in one place anyways, is well traveled having been to most of the settlements on the western united states, and wouldn't have time to found anything or care too much about the politics of the area. although, now that I reread it, maybe late December 2277 is too little time. the game is not very month-specific, so rolling back the clock of LW's escape from vault 101 to February or March instead of August would be a good fix. 2 months to conquer DC, 2 months to travel strait to California (not staying in one place for more than 2 or 3 days but still exploring the many settlements including the divide), 2 weeks to take up the NCR courier job and complete it, a few days of cataclysm, 3 weeks for Ulysses to heal, 5 days to make it back to Caesar (the courier travels from New Vegas to the Divide in 3), and 2 weeks for Ulysses to take up his new assignment and head out to the Great Salt Lake. The only reason I don't necessarily care for the Outcast outlook being the sole reason for travel is that it would require the LW to be more involved in their ongoings. They barely trust a wastelander to shine their power armor, "and that's pushing it," (lol, that dlc was fun). It would be completely out of character. No way would they send a wastelander they don't even trust all the way out to the west coast for a report, unless you make a mod that overhauls your relationship with them and go through some convoluted initiation (which they wouldn't believe in anyways because outsiders are not allowed to join, the reason they split from Lyons in the first place, as well as putting tech second). Besides, because they don't have as much of a hold on DC, the western BOS doesn't know about this split, And Lyons is the one they assigned to the mission (and certainly delivered, they got vertibirds and a literal walking tank for Atom's sake!), the logical reason to leave would be an official report from Lyons describing the Outcasts split, the securing of the DC, wipe out of the Enclave (which the outcasts don't care about, but the western BOS certainly would!), and a tech report to make the west coast branch happy, along with the other reports I previously posted. END NOTE: I say completely scrap the vault 112 platinum chip idea. Its already to lore breaking as it is, Especially for a mod that aims to "mesh both ends" in a "lore-friendly way". its counter intuitive, you can't make things lore friendly by outright breaking founded lore and incorporating lore that was unrelated. You make time inconsistencies and plot holes by doing that.

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I'm still on my first

I'm still on my first playthrough, but in my head canon I have it as the LW does the whole main plot of DC (plus any side quests/addons I feel like) and only then does he "somehow" hear about a train that will take him out west and decides to board it.  Dear old Dad is dead, he's no longer welcome in his home, and the Capitol Wasteland just holds too many painful memories for him.  So he travels far to forget his troubles (eventually aided by a bullet to the brain).

I've only paid average attention to all the in game lore and the dates, plus I've only completed the New Vegas DLC one time a few years ago, so all of those details are going to be vague in my personal narrative anyway.  Traveling back and forth would break my immersion a little too much and ruin the experience for me I think.

Don't take any of this as a criticism for your work, though.  A writer needs to get this stuff out in the open or it feels wasted, and I'm sure whatever you have in mind will be interesting to say the least.

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There used to be a line on

There used to be a line on the wiki that said that the Divide community was founded by the Courier, it was edited out in November, apparently. I also seem to remember the dialog in the divide implying strongly that the courier did start the colony. Technically, the burden of proof is on the TTW team, but if you would do some research and quote Ulysses directly it would be helpful.

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At about 4:45 in this video,

At about 4:45 in this video, he says the Courier may build something else in the destruction as he "Built the Divide,"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDuVMIw_Ls4

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That seems pretty conclusive.

That seems pretty conclusive.

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JaxFirehart wrote:

JaxFirehart wrote:

 

There used to be a line on the wiki that said that the Divide community was founded by the Courier, it was edited out in November, apparently. I also seem to remember the dialog in the divide implying strongly that the courier did start the colony. Technically, the burden of proof is on the TTW team, but if you would do some research and quote Ulysses directly it would be helpful.

It used to say exactly this:

"However, eventually, a small survivalist community established itself in the area, created by the Courier. Kept alive, it prospered, and more settlers moved into the new city. It prospered enough in fact, to draw the attention of the New California Republic, who began to annex it swiftly for a newly established supply line across the treacherous Divide into the Mojave Wasteland."

I remember researching this topic in the past and there is really no consensus about it, unless Obsidian or Bethesda comes and say if the Courier created the Divide settlement or not, it is anyone guess. Ulysses believes that the Courier created the Divide, but many players don't believe that and say Ulysses is crazy and unbalanced so it can't be trusted, a lot of players believe that maybe the Courier didn't create the Settlement but since he kept delivering things there and using it as a good route to travel the settlement prospered thanks to that, other players believe that the Courier open that route and thanks to that it got an important trade route and the settlement developed due to the busy commercial traffic happening through it and others say yes, it was the Courier who created it.

I say that when in doubt use whatever the game gives you, and the game seems to suggest that the Courier created the Divide or at least it was him/her that made it possible for it to grow and prosper (which would suggest that the Courier kept traveling through it for several years) to be considered as having the potential to one day rival or surpass the NCR and the Legion.

EDIT: I just went and made a quick google search to refresh my memory since I had researched this at least six months ago and in this Nexus post made just a few days ago by someone called greenknightfury mentions:

Of course LR, if you play careful attention to the timeline given, adds about 20 years of age and untold levels of badassery to the Courier; which makes him being jumped and nearly killed by Benny and a handful of Great Khans ridiculous.

I don't know if it was really adds twenty years of age or not, I am just leaving it here in case someone wants to confirm this .

 

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Long Post Alert:

Long Post Alert:

Below, my first post makes some general points about what would be a good plot convergence.  My second posts then explains the outline of my idea. I’m new to the TTW forums, but I am a fan of the mod and of the forums.  Let me know what you guys think of my ideas, even if you don’t like them.

 

General Points About What Would Make a Good Convergence Plot Quest:

Before I pitch my plot convergence idea, I want to point out that any plot convergence idea any of us comes up with will necessarily require some retconning, since we are combining two plots that were meant to be separate.  We should try to minimize the retconning, but we can’t avoid it all together.

What we want is a plot convergence quest that will: 1) have an open ended plot, so that any player can fill in the blanks and thus enjoy whatever story they want to have in the two waste lands; 2) allow player multiple ways to complete the quest by traveling through DC to NV and from DLC to DLC; 3) be consistent with the lore of each game, which also means requiring minimal retconning;  4) be easy to code; 5) be somewhat interesting on its own.

I like Greslin’s idea of going to NV after coming to Smith Casey’s Garage / Vault 112 for a couple reasons: 1) player goes to NV while still relatively low level, so that the player is not overpowered in the early NV quests; 2) Player returns from NV to DC with high powered perks and gear, with armor piercing weapons and ammo, so that they can better take on Enclave and Super Mutants, who have been strengthened compared toFO3; 3) For me the fun of TTW is jumping between the two wastelands, so I want a plot convergence that allows as much of that as possible.

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My Plot Convergence Idea:

My Plot Convergence Idea:

Some background first: the Platinum Chip is actually one of several experimental data storage devices created by Robco right before the war.  There are only several in existence before the Nuclear War.  But each one is essentially only a fancy USB key.  The reason House wants “THE Platinum Chip” is that it is only one with the drivers to upgrade the Securitrons. 

Point is: there could be other Platinum Chips.  LW’s Dad found one of these Chips  and used it to enter Vault 112,  which can be retconned to built by Robco, and to use the same life preserving pod technology that House himself uses. We can come up with several ways LW’s Dad got it.

When LW comes to Smith Casey Garage, he/she meets real Courier Six inside.  There LW learns from Courier—through dialogue or notes on Courier’s dead body—that Courier was sent to DC to scavenge for Robco tech or Platinum Chips, and that the Outcasts have more info about these Platinum Chips.

LW then goes to Fort Independence, where inside on a terminal he learns that: 1) Scribe Elijah of the Mojave chapter of BoS found a broken Platinum Chip, as well as schematics for fixing it; 2) That Robco also created Interface Devices to connect a Platinum Chip to computer or pipboy  not otherwise built to interface with a Platinum Chip 3) That most Robco Tech is in the Mojave; 4) Paladin Ashur may have found some Robco Tech; 5) Outcasts are investigating a Robco-built Vault in Baily Crossroads (i.e. Operation Anchorage Vault) for Robco Tech; 6) some Robco Tech ended up in the MT facility.

 

Player then gets the quest to obtain the following quest item: Platinum Chip with Vault 112 Entrance Code

 

Player also gets following workbench recipes:

Platinum Chip with Vault 112 Entrance Code: Platinum Chip + Interface Device + Holotape with Vault 112 Entrance Code.

Platinum Chip:  Broken Platinum Chip + Schematics for Platinum Chip + (stuff) req. 100 Repair

Interface Device: Broken Interface Device + Schematics For Interface Device + (Stuff) Req. 100 Science

At which point the Player can head out to Mojave, and will chose to “take on the mantle” of Courier Six.  If player kills Courier, then LW gets message to disguise himself as Courier to sneak in and get items.  If Player does not, then in dialogue Courier says to LW that LW must take on his mantle and “complete his quest”.  There will also be an open ended popup that LW learns about Courier's life and history in the Divide. 

Player can also get items in FO3 DLC’s.

 

Locations of Items:

 

Platinum Chip:

NV: 1) Benny or Caesar (obviously); 2) House (reward) or Yes Man (on demand)

NV DLC: In Dead Money, outside of Sierra Madre Vault, after defeating Elijah

FO3 DLC: In Pitt, Laboratory where Ashur’s kid is kept.

 

Interface Device:

NV: House (reward) or Yes Man (on demand) 

NV DLC: In Dead Money, outside of Sierra Madre Vault, after defeating Elijah.

FO3 DLC: In Pitt, Laboratory where Ashur’s kid is kept.

 

Holotape With Vault 112 Entrance Codes:

NV: 1) House or Yes Man, either on demand or as rewards; 2) Hacking House’s computer system for Followers of Apocalypse Quest.

FO3 DLC: Download from Hard or  Very Hard Terminal inside Op Anchorage Vault (don’t need to complete that DLC to get that holotape)

 

Broken Platinum Chip:

NV DLC: OWB, in Dr. 0’s house, near broken Securitron

 

Broken Interface Device:

NV DLC: OWB in Dr. 0’s house, near broken Securitron

 

Schematics for Platinum Chip and Interface Device:

NV: 1) H&H Tools; 2) Hacking House’s computer system for Followers of Apocalypse Quest; 3) Mojave BoS Terminal;

NV DLC: Dead Money, in Elijah’s bunker after completing DLC. 

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Correct me if I'm wrong here,

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I always took 'platinum chip' to mean a platinum POKER chip, especially when compared to the other gambling-themed items that the other couriers were carrying.

With that in mind, perhaps drop the 'platinum chip' moniker of the item you are forging/repairing and just call it something else?

Now, one thing I've noticed but haven't seen much mention of as far as braiding these two games together, is Ulysses's utter love for history.  He's well-read, wears an Old World flag, etc.,  Would be easy to drop clues into places like the National Archives that would lead players onto the path to find this nutjob, in the same way that clues are dropped in NV and the other NV DLCs leading you toward LR (as well as DM, but that is a totally different clue trail/nutjob)

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That is an interesting

That is an interesting concept. I can Ulysses as being a big wanderer (especially because his name is the romanization of odysseus, from which odyssey is derived), and he could conceivably have spent some time in DC, the seat of power in the old world. The problem we come up against is no voice acting, though that could conceivably be bypassed by using written accounts, but those would go against his character. Maybe one of his last notes could mention finding a holotape recorder and that he will start using that?

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Ulysses is probably one of

Ulysses is probably one of the strongest characters in the FO universe in my opinion. Kind of off topic, I know.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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JaxFirehart wrote:

JaxFirehart wrote:

That is an interesting concept. I can Ulysses as being a big wanderer (especially because his name is the romanization of odysseus, from which odyssey is derived), and he could conceivably have spent some time in DC, the seat of power in the old world. The problem we come up against is no voice acting, though that could conceivably be bypassed by using written accounts, but those would go against his character. Maybe one of his last notes could mention finding a holotape recorder and that he will start using that?



That sounds *really* plausable.  Not sure of the legality/feasability of it, but we could take all of his existing dialogue and maybe 'splice together' some new audio as well?

As for his name, and this may just be my 'reading into it', he seemed to me to be giving off a bit of the "Ulysses S, Grant' fanboy vibe, perhaps taking homage to the General/President in that aspect.  I haven't played the FO3 side enough to memorize all of the locations yet, but I remember a hall of robots programmed to act/think/speak like the presidents.  Maybe another note location possibility as well as fodder for the pseudo-lore?
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The bots are in the national

The bots are in the national archives. You run across him in order to get the declaration of independence

If life is but a test, where's the damn answer key?!?!?

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Thanks, paragon.  Yeah, that

Thanks, paragon.  Yeah, that's a quest I've only done once and only really remembered scraps of it.

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My issue with the proposed

My issue with the proposed item for Vault 112 is that:

Wasting Legion's pardon so early in the game is a good way to waste time and be grounded by Legion's assassins ad nauseam if the player killed some legionnaires, making the New Vegas part of the game far less interesting.

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Oh Man! I can't wait for you

Oh Man! I can't wait for you to finish this. I'm not going to bother starting it if it isn't finished so I don't lose anything in my mind of what I am doing (bad memory as it is)

Good luck, I love this idea so far.

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Thought I'd just mention it,

Thought I'd just mention it, but the whole platinum chip thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. After all, House made it specifically for upgrading his stuff.

Now, here's my $.02.

Req: Broken Steel is completed.

After the defeat of the Enclave, the brotherhood finds itself atop a pile of technological goodies. Elder Lyons feels the need to report back to the bosses out west on their success, but since they won't talk to him, he wants an excursion west. He chooses you, the Brotherhood's best to lead the operation, both for your incredible skill, and to show those knuckleheads out west that outsiders can be of use.

One prize from defeating the Enclave was their vast fleet of vertibirds, and all their other experimental aircraft. You and several knights board a vertibird, and set off on a long journey west. However, along the way, something goes wrong. The aircraft comes down in flames, and you are the only survivor. (IE: The random crashed vertibird with the unique tesla cannon near it).

Disoriented, you find yourself in a strange new land, and being the type of person you are, you go exploring. Eventually, you stumble across a quiet town known as Goodsprings. That night, you stayed at the saloon, but you desired to get a bit of fresh air, and went for an evening stroll under the cold, Mojave sky.

That's when you hear a scuffle to the north - and gunshots. Drawing your weapon, you hurry over to investigate, and take cover in the shadows as you observed the scene before you.

Illuminated in the moonlight was a quartet of men, led by a man in a checkered coat. Kneeling before them was a captive wo/man, his/her hands bound. You couldn't make out what the leader was saying, but you did notice as the man drew a silver pistol from his coat. This couldn't stand, you decided, as you prepared to intervene. With reflexes that only you possessed, you quickly set your sites on the leader, and prepared to fire.

Unfortunately, just as you pulled the trigger, an accursed gust of strong wind took you by surprise, and the shot went wide. To their credit, the thugs quickly recovered from the shock and wheeled about to face you, guns drawn. Shots were fired. Cursing yourself for your moment of brief moment of carelessness, you ducked behind cover, and quickly popped out, expertly shooting one of the thugs between the eyes.

To your dismay, the leader seized the opportunity to shoot his captive. He fired twice at point blank range, before turning his sights on you, before firing once more.

It was an incredibly lucky shot. Luckily for you, it just missed your eye, but even then the bullet quickly sent you sprawling into unconsciousness. 

The man in the checkered suit approached your unconscious body, prepared to finish you off. He didn't get the opportunity. The graveyard was suddenly lit up with laser fire as a lone securitron wheeled onto the scene, his guns blazing. The leader and the remaining thugs realized this was a good time to book it, and so they did.

The robot approached your prone frame, and sat there silently for a moment, as if it were judging you. Seconds later, it awkwardly grabbed you in one of its claws and slung you over its "shoulder". It grabbed the captive as well.

You woke up later, wincing at the bright light. As your vision cleared, you found yourself in a doctor's office, the doctor in question urging you not to strain yourself. He told you that you had been shot in the head. But something was wrong...

You realized that you couldn't remember a thing.

The doctor somberly told him that the other patient didn't make it. What other patient? You thought. Was s/he my friend? I...ugh... As you made to leave, the doctor hands you a slip for some sort of delivery order. Were you delivering this? Were you traveling with that other person? Why were you shot? What sort of person were you?

You intended to find out. 

And so, you step out the door into Goodsprings, and set out on another great adventure...

...

Thoughts?

Risewild
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After the defeat of the

After the defeat of the Enclave, the brotherhood finds itself atop a pile of technological goodies. Elder Lyons feels the need to report back to the bosses out west on their success, but since they won't talk to him, he wants an excursion west. He chooses you, the Brotherhood's best to lead the operation, both for your incredible skill, and to show those knuckleheads out west that outsiders can be of use.

What if the player decides to destroy the citadel?

MortuusSum
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Req: Broken Steel is

Req: Broken Steel is completed.

In my opinion, (which I respect), the benefit of TTW is being able to travel between wastelands and interact with both stories simultaneously and organically (or at least partially so). If I have to complete FO3/BS first, I might as well just play FO3 then make a NV character with the same name.

Age Quod Agis

Explodium
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After killing your former

After killing your former brothers, you are at a loss with what to do with yourself. That's when you realize that you are standing next to a perfectly good vertibird. Also, there are plenty of intact aircraft at the airforce base as well. The wasteland has no hold over you, and you decide to find new lands to explore and terrorize, because you're kinda a dick like that.

The plot progresses in much the same way. You crash in the Mojave, wander into Goodsprings, but your reasons for interfering with Benny are less altruistic, 'cause you're a dick.

You get shot, forget everything, and swear revenge against the guy who shot you.

Something like that.

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