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watercrown
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Stuttering and hitching when loading new textures.

Hello,

For the last few weeks I've been dealing with an unfortunate issue in FNV. No matter what I try I can't get rid of this bad stutter that starts building up after playing for 30 minuts or so. It's been a while since I've played this game but I don't recall the issue being anywhere near as bad on older systems I've had. I should also note I haven't actually installed TTW yet... I really want to get this problem sorted first.

My System

Windows 10 PRO.

i7-3770k running at 4.5GHZ

8GB of Ram.

1080TI (I know nobody cares)

Latest version of Mod Organizer.

Load Order

Texture mod wise, I'm using NMC Large, MGs Clutter, UHQ Terrain and Roads, Textures Over time, Wasteland Clothing HD, Weapon Retexture Project.

FalloutNV.esm
DeadMoney.esm
HonestHearts.esm
OldWorldBlues.esm
LonesomeRoad.esm
GunRunnersArsenal.esm
ClassicPack.esm
MercenaryPack.esm
TribalPack.esm
CaravanPack.esm
YUP - Base Game + All DLC.esm
FCOMaster.esm
oHUD.esm
Project Nevada - Core.esm
Project Nevada - Extra Options.esm
ELECTRO-CITY - CompletedWorkorders.esm
NevadaSkies.esm
ELECTRO-CITY - Highways and Byways.esm
YUP - NPC Fixes (Base Game + All DLC).esp
FCO - NPC Changes.esp
Improved Sound FX Merged.esp
Vicious Wastes.esp
EVE FNV - ALL DLC.esp
Vicious Wastes - Gun Runners Arsenal.esp
IMPACT.esp
357retex.esp
boa ncrpahelmet.esp
Boacombat2glove.esp
IMPACT - AllDLC.esp
Real Recoil.esp
FCO - OHSB NPC Edits.esp
PipBoyCounters.esp
Pipboy Light Amber.esp
JIP Improved Recipe Menu.esp
Disable Couriers Stash.esp
No Dialogue Tags.esp
MTB.esp
Delay DLC - DM + HH + OWB + LR + GRA.esp
Tutorial Killer Merged.esp
PMT - Responsive Kill Reactions.esp
FP gun follows crosshairs.esp
The Mod Configuration Menu.esp
Vicious Wastes - Old World Blues.esp
Project Nevada - Old World Blues (No Cyberware).esp
Project Nevada - Lonesome Road.esp
Project Nevada - Honest Hearts.esp
Project Nevada - Gun Runners' Arsenal.esp
Project Nevada - Dead Money.esp
Vicious Wastes - Dead Money.esp
Vicious Wastes - Honest Hearts.esp
Vicious Wastes - DM + HH.esp
Vicious Wastes - HH + GRA.esp
Vicious Wastes - HH + OWB.esp
Vicious Wastes - Lonesome Road.esp
Vicious Wastes - LR + OWB.esp
FOVSlider.esp
AllCompanionsEssential 2.0b.esp
Manual Reload Merged.esp
MiscItemIconsNV.esp
Assassin Freq14.esp
Enhanced_Sensors_Rebalanced.esp
CompanionEquipment.esp
Reload Speed Game Start Fix.esp
HZSmoothLight.esp
Rebuilt Sequoia.esp
TakeYourTime.esp
Harsh Item Rarity.esp
NoFastTravel_NV.esp
NevadaSkies - Ultimate DLC Edition.esp
merged.esp

Symptons

Like I mentioned, stuttering/hitching just keeps building after the intial boot of the game. It's easy to ignore at first, but eventually it becomes really distracting in outdoor areas. PCB (and related mods) don't seem to do anything for this. Only thing that fixes it is a restart of the game. Also, I have tested this without texture mods and the problem does take longer to build up, but eventually it does stutter just as bad.

What you have already tried?

This is on a new install of New Vegas and Mod Organizer (making sure to purge everything related before reinstalling both).

I did everything in TTW Performance guide (including downloading the new sound files).

Only thing I'm not 100% clear on is how my nvse_config.ini should look like. It should imply read...

[Memory]
DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=420

Correct?

Only thing I touched for NVSR is...

bHookLightCriticalSections = 0

bManageFPS = 0

(I'm using RivaTuner to cap my FPS since other options gave me a slight micro-stutter and I'm also on a Gsync monitor)

I also downloaded ENBooster.

[MEMORY]
ExpandSystemMemoryX64=false
ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true
DisableDriverMemoryManager=true
DisablePreloadToVRAM=false
EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=true
ReservedMemorySizeMb=512
VideoMemorySizeMb=4096
EnableCompression=false
AutodetectVideoMemorySize=false
 

This is the only section I touched.

Just looking for any advice at this point.

TTW Version Compatibility: 

v2.9

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RoyBatty
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ENBoost will just make it

ENBoost will just make it worse.

The game was not designed to load 4k and 8k textures, you either get used to it or uninstall them.

NVSE config is correct.

Some of your mods are not compatible with TTW, but they are fine for an NV playthrough.

watercrown
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I appreciate the prompt

I appreciate the prompt response.

I guess I feel better knowing I did everything I could. I'll probably just unistall the texture mods.

H1ms3lf
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watercrown wrote:

watercrown wrote:

I guess I feel better knowing I did everything I could. I'll probably just unistall the texture mods.



There's a bit of min-maxing approach you could try, it reduces texture sizes to 4k, 2k or 1k, you can actually choose size in the menu (might leave everything at 2k since your system is good =P)

Just look around this guide here, although I find it very hard to follow, but then I'm me.

Anyway, you kinda learn as you go, let us know if you try and it works for good!

Compulsive post editor and CEO for the ENDLESS WAVES OF BAD DOGGIE!!
Currently trying to get the FWE Wasteland Explorer bike to work in TTW =X

watercrown
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I'll give it a shot.

I'll give it a shot.

Another question. I notice one of the tweaks in the TTW Performance Guide utilizes fast travel to help with performance over time. Does playing these games not using the in-game fast travel contribute to stuttering over time?

RoyBatty
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No, all that setting does is

No, all that setting does is purge the buffers of unused assets when you fast travel.

Setting the game to use lower quality mip maps (graphics quality) does not prevent it from loading the full sized textures, that's not how it works.

watercrown
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Texture optimization didn't

Texture optimization didn't do much. I'm just going to go with vanilla textures. It's easy enough to get use to them again. It's kind of funny how many guides go all out on making the game look modern yet not a single one mentions that performance goes to shit no matter what rig you have because of the innate engine limitation.

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Even using ENBoost your

Even using something like ENBoost, your likely to still have some stuttering to a degree eventually- especially when it momentarily 'holds up' the game while trying to move unused graphics out of memory and more new ones in.

Let's say we add an 'intermediary' process between the game engine and the graphics API of the system. Not only can we change the data going to the game such as 'enhancing' the graphics (many used SweetFX as the basis for their own 'injector' designs), but we can intercept calls to allocate graphics memory and load data into it ourselves. If we can do this, we could get a game program to use a much larger block of memory- the game generally doesn't care how something gets into graphics memory, as long as it knows where it is and that it's there.

The game engine can load the graphic, let's say a wall texture, into the graphics card's display memory and we see it. What if we could 'intercept' that call and load the texture ourselves? We could, if we run out of graphics memory, start paging things in and out of system memory; what ENBoost does. Now, instead of the graphics card driver saying, sorry, don't have the room for more data, we can use system memory as a very slow extended graphics buffer. But... theres still a problem. The graphic buffer of both the card and system start to fill up- what does the game purge and what doesn't it purge? What about 3D objects whose data is also handled by the graphics card? Do those memory areas also fill up? That I think is the problem your describing- it works ok at first, then slowly degrades over time.

Yeah, I think the problem when memory starts to fragment up a bit is... how do we move, compress, etc.,. graphics data (not just textures) to maximize efficiency measured with frame fps. Some gamers compensate with more system memory, larger and faster graphics cards, overclocking cpus and gpus to increase bandwidth, which all mask the symptom to the point they might not even acknowledge it anymore. But it's still there.

That would, to me, explain why a game restart, loading the game back in the same area runs great. It's not just the loaded textures that might be bogging things down, it's other things the game is keeping track of? It could even be something as low level as a script function 'failing' simply because you moved to another cell before it had completed doing something else? But, if using vanilla graphics seem to keep things chugging, I'd venture a bet that, if you unlock your framerate, your fps would be higher at the start, than hours into the game. Though not dropping below 60 is the target; using modern hardware the game, according to the developers, works as intended, even though the graphics, etc.,. might be considered below modern day standards. Which again, is masking a the symptom of something else (engine design, etc.,.).

RoyBatty
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Panda the issue is Bethesda

Panda the issue is Bethesda ties everything to frame rate, and that includes loading assets. So the game can only load so many mb/sec due to the way it's threaded.

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He's saying though that his

He's saying though that his frame-rate is degrading over time the more he plays (if I understand what he was referring to) which, even if loading assets are tied to frame-rates, the game should give consistent frame-rates, or a least a yo-yo effect of speedups and slowdowns, depending on where you are and how much is being loaded; that I would consider fairly normal, but it's not. If it's slowly and consistently degrading, to me, it's saying that the game is somehow memory fragmented (just one possibility), either system ram/ gpu ram/ or both, and having a problem moving and managing things internally since restarting the game solves the issue (irrespective of where, what, or how much is being loaded).

It's definitely a strange engine problem per se that's for sure.

RoyBatty
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There's two issues going on

There's two issues going on and they are intertwined. The memory manager was not designed to handle 16 times the memory needed for textures (or even more for 4k) and neither was the asset loader. The two combined create massive memory management problems from both ends.

watercrown
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So, a little update. I

So, a little update. I suppose this is the last time I ask for help on this. I'm just going to try to deal with it after this since I really just want to play this game already.

So I have done away with all wordspace texture mods. They just aren't worth it to me anymore. For the most part this did fix the issue I was having when just traveling around (which is really important because I play with fast travel disabled). Now however, I'm starting to see another layer to this problem that I wasn't seeing before since it looked like the exact same thing (stuttering while loading new textures).

So I found a good area that really highlights the issue.

So inside the house in Sloan where you can steal two skills books I save my game and quit New Vegas.

I exit the house and look around. Everything is running good.

I load the same save, look around and there is a small hitch.

I load the same save, a few hitches now.

I load the same save, now it's hitching constantly as I move the camera around.

I tested this maybe 20 different times (starting with a restarting the game) and it's the same every single time. I tried this while testing all kind of NVSR setting (heapreplace on/off, experimental stuff on/off, etc). I also tested this with all my mods (except for character overhaul since my character uses the textures and that save glitches out without it enabled) disabled.

So, is this normal behavious for the game? Have I truly done everything I can possible do?

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No, it's usually caused by

No, it's usually caused by NVSRs HookLightCriticalSections

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I never messed with that

I never messed with that setting since it's pretty much universally panned. Been off the entire time.

 

Master = {
    _comment = You can turn on or off each distinct feature from here.
    bManageFPS = 1
    bHookCriticalSections = 1
    bHookLightCriticalSections = 0
    bHookHashtables = 1
    bReplaceHeap = 0
    bReplaceGetTickCount = 1
    bLogToConsole = 0
    bFastExit = 1
    bFlushLog = 1
    iSchedulingResolution = 1
    bReplaceRandom = 1
    bExperimentalStuff = 1
    iMainHookPoint = 1
}
Experimental = {
    _comment =bReduceSleep and iThreadsFixedToCPUs can probably reasonably be used at 1.  > 1 is a bad idea atm.
    _comment =other settings here you're probably better off not touching
    bReduceSleep = 1
    iThreadsFixedToCPUs = 4
    bSuppressRandomSeeding = 0
    bBenchmarkHeap = 0
    bAlternateHeapHooks = 0
    iHeapMainBlockAddress = 0
}
FPS_Management = {
    _comment =Absent a good reason otherwise, bInject_iFPSClamp=1, fMaximumFPS= 30 to 85 (or 0), fMinimumFPS= 10 to 20, iFPS_Report_Period = 2000 to 60000, fExtraSleepPercent = 0.0 to 0.2
    bInject_iFPSClamp = 1
    fMaximumFPS =  0
    fMinimumFPS = 20
    iFPS_Report_Period = 15000
    fExtraSleepPercent =0.05
}
GetTickCount = {
    _comment =This section is disabled by default - see Master/bReplaceGetTickCount
    bForceResolution = 1
    bPreserveDC_Bias = 1
    bPreserveHighFreqComponents = 0
    bForceSync = 0
    iSyncLimitMilliseconds = 50
}
CriticalSections = {
    _comment = CS stuff helps Oblivion, Fallout, and New Vegas significantly
    _comment = much of the benefit comes from the Renderer+0x180 suppression (see overrides below)
    _comment = modes: 1=vanilla, 2=fair, 3=staggering(hybrid of 1 & 2), 5=suppressed
    bUseOverrides = 1
    iDefaultMode = 3
    iDefaultSpin = 500
    iStaggerLevel = 5
    bEnableMessages = 1
    bEnableProfiling = 0
}
LightCriticalSections = {
    _comment =LCS stuff is like CS stuff, but with a Bethesda implementation.  And inlined sometimes, so difficult for me to work with
    bEnableProfiling = 0
    bEnableMessages = 1
    iDefaultMode = 3
    iDefaultSpin = 1000
    iStaggerLevel = 5
    bFullHooks = 0
    bUseOverrides = 0

This is what I am running with currently. I have tested with experimental stuff off (it does provide a noticable benefit that I can see), replaceheap on, manage FPS off and lots of other combinations. I haven't tested with NVSR disabled because it certainly clears up the main bulk of stuttering.

EDIT: I tested this without NVSR and NVAC and it still happens. Must be something related to in-game settings or .ini changes I've made.

I uploaded a copy of my fallout.ini all the changes were also made in the other two .ini.

File Attachments: 

RoyBatty
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There's a working ini in the

There's a working ini in the performance thread.

 

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There are a few NVSR .ini

There are a few NVSR .ini files. I've tried them all already.

EDIT:

I checked out BethINI and it pretty much made everything a lot better. There is a bit of a hitch but the recovery time is so much better now. Everything just feels smoother and much more responsive.

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No clue what bethini is. Is

No clue what bethini is. Is that the closed source program that has comments disabled so you can't even ask what it does?

watercrown
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http://www.nexusmods.com

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/4875/?tab=1&navtag=ht...

Comments are disabled on Nexus, but there is a plenty of discussion at the home forum for the application. As far as what it does, I was linked to some documentation on it since I was very curious on it myself. I usually don't bother with these kind of .ini tweaks/performance mods since most of the time they don't do anything without some side effect (if they work at all). I was getting pretty desperate and the difference has been pretty tangeable.

EDIT: The documentation I got was for the Skyrim configs, just looking through it seems pretty extensive so I can only assume a great of work was put into Fallout 3/NV. Also, it didn't just slap on Skyrim tweaks.. I've been going throuhg it myself since I wanted to see where I went wrong.

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BethINI is a tool created by

BethINI is a tool created by @DoubleYou of STEP that applies INI changes for all the Bethesda games (and FNV).

It was created after extensive INI testing over a number of months/years based on tried and true INI changes. Although I don't use it extensively myself I do believe it is accurate and he is still making adjustments whenever new information comes to light.

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Yeah but I want to know

Yeah but I want to know exactly what it does, I don't see anything there other than grass fade distance that would affect performance at all.

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I've PM'd him to give me the

I've PM'd him to give me the source so you can have a look at what exactly he is changing.

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Thanks.

Thanks.

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Actually I didn't need to.

Actually I didn't need to. Source code is contained in every download in a separate 'source' folder inside the archive.