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TJ
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A 0.9/10 review. Ouch.

A 0.9/10 review. Ouch.

Maybe they'll realize this isn't the course they wanted to go down with their company after all.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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Wasteland Workshop is

Wasteland Workshop is basically a "horse armour" for Fallout 4, I'm not surprised.

TJ
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zilav wrote:

zilav wrote:

Fallout 4 is basically a "horse armour" for Fallout 4, I'm not surprised.

I fixed it bud.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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Far Harbor Trailer

Far Harbor Trailer

 

I'm having a little "Deja vu" here isn't this Point lookout?  I have a feeling I've played this DLC before! 

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chucksteel wrote:

chucksteel wrote:

 

Far Harbor Trailer

 

I'm having a little "Deja vu" here isn't this Point lookout?  I have a feeling I've played this DLC before! 

"Please find my daughter" well, that line is in PL

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Risewild wrote:

Risewild wrote:

"Please find my daughter

SHAUN

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Would be funny if we find

Would be funny if we find another magic punga tree raining giant bobbleheads from the sky.

Hey, it's ME!

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chucksteel wrote:

chucksteel wrote:

 

Far Harbor Trailer

 

I'm having a little "Deja vu" here isn't this Point lookout?  I have a feeling I've played this DLC before! 

It's more and more makes me wonder: Is their scrips department all resigned or sleeping?

Man, what's the point to make such a half-hearted game at all?

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I'm hoping for at least two

I'm hoping for at least two more NV-esq expansions, though perhaps it would be asking too much at this stage

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I honestly do not see the

I honestly do not see the similarity to Point Lookout, setting wise. Northern Maine is very different from southern Maryland, and the trailer seems to support that. I see boreal pine Forrest, not sparse wetlands

BTW, I think I saw a Gecko in the trailer, and a lever-action rifle! Looking forward to those. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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People playing the beta

People playing the beta/leaked version of Far Harbor say it's 'good', but the people saying that tend to be hardcore Bethesda fans (the bethesdrones) so ehhh  it's probably just more of the same vapid 'go here kill everything' quests. 

They really dropped the ball with DLC. The first two were record-for-record stolen from mod authors who would have done it for free (RobCo Certified, whose author sadly does not recognise that Bethesda stole their idea, and the countless settlement item mods that added far more things than Bethesda's own DLC.) And from the descriptions those who are less fond of Bethesda have given me, Far Harbor is more or less Point Lookout with a slightly different cover and half the content missing - only about ten notable locations, three vapid settlements. Point Lookout, for reference, had thirty notable locations. 

It's clear now: Bethesda is doing this for profit, and resorts to plagiarism and recycling old ideas because they themselves are out of ideas. Automatron? Stolen from a mod. Wasteland Workshop? Stolen from multiple mods. Far Harbor? Point Lookout, only with most of its meat stripped away. Fallout 4? Fallout 3, with most of its meat stripped away and a quarter of it replaced with CoD-style masses-appeasement. 

 I wouldn't even be surprised if they did a DLC that was literally Dog Armor and a DLC that was just basically a Pay To Win thing. Because they clearly don't care about creating good content, unlike Obsidian. 

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The above is probably True,

The above is probably True, Bethesda being the MS of Gaming world but Bethesda does not have to give Credit to TalkieToaster, Arcoolka, Elderwind because of the clause in the GECK and software in general.   Besides, all Fallout Veterans know where those contributions originated from.

I also hope Obsidian is given the nod but I am going to guess they will not because Bethesda doesn't want to have their ego challenged.

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

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Honestly, I feel that

Honestly, I feel that Automatron was a good DLC. It was just overpriced. If it had just been the Robot mechanic, it would be different, but it does add a nice questline, a new faction, and some neat new gear. Which is about the same as Anchorage or GRA. Wasteland Workshop, on the other hand, really does just rip off mods. The only things that are unique are the Concrete pieces and the cages. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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Destructoperson wrote:

Destructoperson wrote:

 

People playing the beta/leaked version of Far Harbor say it's 'good', but the people saying that tend to be hardcore Bethesda fans (the bethesdrones) so ehhh  it's probably just more of the same vapid 'go here kill everything' quests. 

They really dropped the ball with DLC. The first two were record-for-record stolen from mod authors who would have done it for free (RobCo Certified, whose author sadly does not recognise that Bethesda stole their idea, and the countless settlement item mods that added far more things than Bethesda's own DLC.) And from the descriptions those who are less fond of Bethesda have given me, Far Harbor is more or less Point Lookout with a slightly different cover and half the content missing - only about ten notable locations, three vapid settlements. Point Lookout, for reference, had thirty notable locations. 

It's clear now: Bethesda is doing this for profit, and resorts to plagiarism and recycling old ideas because they themselves are out of ideas. Automatron? Stolen from a mod. Wasteland Workshop? Stolen from multiple mods. Far Harbor? Point Lookout, only with most of its meat stripped away. Fallout 4? Fallout 3, with most of its meat stripped away and a quarter of it replaced with CoD-style masses-appeasement. 

 I wouldn't even be surprised if they did a DLC that was literally Dog Armor and a DLC that was just basically a Pay To Win thing. Because they clearly don't care about creating good content, unlike Obsidian. 

This is the fucking stupidest thing I've ever read. Quit being ignorant and assuming Beth stole these idea's from mod author's.Because they didnt.They came up with them on their own and they happen to be similar.That's it.As for Far Harbor,it doesnt even look anything or seem anything like Point Lookout.Only thing it shares is the whole track down someone's daughter and maybe the whole crazy tribe thing except with the Children of Atom. 

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Mariofan17, that kind of

Mariofan17, that kind of belligerent language is not necessary. I believe you have been warned many times before about this sort of thing. 

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@Mariofahn While I agree that

@Mariofahn While I agree that people are WAY, WAY, WAY (WAY!) to harsh with Bethesda, I also know that Bethesda openly admits to looking at popular mods for DLC ideas. Either way, there is no need for you to be so hostile. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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Just finished Automatron and

Just finished Automatron and I really liked it: fun (Jezebel was a favorite), cool robots, nice "dungeons", quite challenging in places (at least on Survival) and I might even use the workbench to create a bunch of weird robots. So while it's certainly not a huge DLC, it's a well-made, neat addition to the game IMO.

»You're no match for science!« Doctor Mobius

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[slight spoiler alert]

[slight spoiler alert]

OMG, the retrieve memories part in the Far Harbor MQ must be one of the most boring, frustrating and ugly game experiences I've ever had. Just for one thing, there are no subtitles even if having them turned on, and I can't hear most of the instructions. In fact, I don't feel like continuing the game at all.

»You're no match for science!« Doctor Mobius

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Skip Far Harbor Memory Puzzle

Arkngt wrote:

 

[slight spoiler alert]

OMG, the retrieve memories part in the Far Harbor MQ must be one of the most boring, frustrating and ugly game experiences I've ever had. Just for one thing, there are no subtitles even if having them turned on, and I can't hear most of the instructions. In fact, I don't feel like continuing the game at all.

Skip Far Harbor Memory Puzzle

A few others thought the same way...

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I haven't reached this part

I haven't reached this part of the DLC yet, but it really seems like people absolutely hate it. From looking at screenshots of it, it looks basically entirely lifted from the cyberspace levels from in the System Shock games. Only apparently it's really, really awful. 

Can't wait to find out what it is. 

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I actually really thoroughly

I actually really thoroughly enjoyed far harbor besides the memory puzzle, which didn't actually bother me that much either. It felt more like a fallout game than the base game did.

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Thanks, kraag, might use that

Thanks, kraag, might use that, although I'm a bit wary of basically using console commands to advance quests, as I've had issues when trying it in other Bethesda games.

I think my main issue is that I can't hear what DiMA says, it's just "You must mumble mumble mumble". But I dislike everything in it, including the way they have envisioned computer memory, much as I thought it was ridiculous to run around on synapses in the vanilla MQ.

EDIT: Yes, that seems to have worked fine. :) And, agreed, tact, I also like the DLC a lot so far, minus the memory fetching part. 

»You're no match for science!« Doctor Mobius

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huh, I heard what he was

huh, I heard what he was saying just fine, finished it today.

Disappointed in the ending... but I didn't expect much.

It's still Point Lookout 2.0, the only difference is getting back someone elses brains instead of yours.

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Yeah, if I turn up the volume

Yeah, if I turn up the volume I guess I'd hear him better, but then I think the gun sounds are too loud (for my neighbours at least). I rely a lot on subtitles working, but they don't during the quest. (Also, being Swedish, I like english subtitles if possible, for games, movies, tv - at least when dialogue is important.)

»You're no match for science!« Doctor Mobius

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The fact that they lead you

The fact that they lead you to believe you can get multiple endings when there's only one ending is the biggest flaw. Think you can destroy everything? Nope! Not allowed by the DLC's Mary Sue, oh sorry, I mean 'DiMA'.

 

That, and the fact that Bethesda paid The Vault to do a false size comparison for PR reasons. Bethesda and The Vault would have you believe Far Harbor is bigger than all previous DLCs when in reality it's half as big and twice as expensive as Old World Blues - a mere 20 locations of so, more than half of which are fluff markers there for no reason, versus 35  mostly meaningful locations and more than just three new weapons. Old World Blues had twice the amount of new weapons and twice the interior spaces with a whole lot more functionality. 

 

I wonder what their next DLC is, we've had TotallyNotRobCoCertifiedBro, BethesdasVapidSims, TotallyNotPointLookoutBro... Fatherboat Epsilon? Alive Caps? Deceitful Blood? New World Hope? Populated Track? The Hill? Mended Iron? The Anchorage Campaign? Boston Bounties? 

 

This is why Bethesda is allowing Mod Theft, because if they crack down on it, they have to crack down on themselves, after all 2/3 DLCs so far are literally stolen mods. 

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I'm anticipating even more

I'm anticipating even more fail from Bethesdas next "paid mod". Whatever it may try to be. Maybe that Nuka World thing [someone found .esm names in code], sounds campy enough for a retro-futuristic blah blah blah it just works. Plus more "HAWSSE ARMORZ" for the Workshop part of the game.

Then it's on to port Skyrim to the latest generation of consoles [which they have likely already nearly finished] - the High Res DLC we got for PC will become the "New Flashy Skyrim Remastered" version for xBONE and PS4.

3% of customers will notice they got screwed as they come to the realization that they already own this game, the other 97% will lap it up and shout "Yay Bethesda - This Is Awesome Sauce!" in typical blind obediant fashion.

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Uh, you actually don't have

@destructoperson Uh, you actually don't have to follow dima though? You can kill everyone at acadia, nuke the children of atom, and get rid of the far harbor people?

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tact wrote:

tact wrote:

 

@destructoperson Uh, you actually don't have to follow dima though? You can kill everyone at acadia, nuke the children of atom, and get rid of the far harbor people?

This is all true and probably the reason I felt, for the first time ever, that a games DLC was better than the actual game....

(that and the red death was epic)

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Far Harbor was great and

Far Harbor was great and offered a lot of great stuff, even a surprisingly interesting side-quest in a vault, but overall it didn't elevate itself above the rest of the crap that Fallout 4 is made of. It has pretty awful dialog and sidequests that just mean going to a place and doing a thing (killing something or fetching something) and returning, just like in the base game.

That being said, Arcadia actually has atmosphere which the Commonwealth is really lacking. 

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@destructoperson Uh, you

@destructoperson Uh, you actually don't have to follow dima though? You can kill everyone at acadia, nuke the children of atom, and get rid of the far harbor people?

No you can't. DiMA takes them off you and if you try to go to the places before that they're either locked or say 'no actually, we won't let you'. It's a huge case of the illusion of choice.

I think it's about time we demanded some proper, actually good DLC, not some stolen mods. Once the stolen mods thing is taken care of, if ever (which is not likely at all considering most of the FO4 DLC is literally stolen mods) why not demand Bethesda apologise for stealing the work of modders thus encouraging console crybabies to steal mods? Bethesda did it first with Robco Certifie- I'm sorry, I mean Automatron, which isn't only half-assed but isn't even as well done as Robco Certified. Then you have meaningless, vapid shit like the settlement DLC, and they have two more them planned.  Except even here, modders did it first. And Bethesda has yet to apologise.

 

Enough with the paid mods and the stolen mods. It's time modders stood up to Bethesda and demanded apologies and proper curation. We do not owe Bethesda anything, Bethesda owes us. It is not them that made their games last for years, it is the work of mods like TTW, Project Nevada, Skyrim Redone, Fallout: Wanderer's Edition, the Unofficial Patches which fix the bugs Bethesda was too lazy to fix, creating the textures and models actually worth of contemporary games which Bethesda doesn't even bother to make...

With the Paid Mods and the Stolen Mods, Bethesda is basically shitting on modders, pretending it's all their work, that mods aren't a big thing , despite mods making their games last far longer than they have any right to. TTW itself and its mods, I say, are not primarily the work of Bethesda or Obsidian (who Bethesda pretends doesn't exist)! It is primarily the work of the TTW team, and Bethesda should not be credited as Bethesda has shown itself to be a greedy money-grabbing EA/Ubisoft-level company.

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Bethesda did release this

Bethesda did release this statement which is encouraging, if you haven't read it. 

I don't think console modders/users (and new PC users I guess) are following Bethesda's lead as much as nobody's at all. They were let into a community which has built itself up over a decade and more with established rules and expectations which Bethesda failed to adequately acknowledge or communicate to users on their site. We can fault them for being dumb and slow to react and not moderating their site, surely.

It's silly to accuse Bethesda of stealing mods or ideas though, as if it's morally reprehensible to take inspiration from something or to copy it. They can do what they want, and even if that makes some poor mod author somewhere feel less valued or slighted in some way, that's not really Bethesda's problem. They're the ones who choose to let other people mod their games at least as easily as they can be in the first instance, and a modder's time is something freely given. There's nothing more expected from anybody in that entire equation.

Will they take advantage of modders and modding for the extra revenue it brings them? Of course, and I don't think there's a compelling reason why they shouldn't be allowed to. (Because "Bethesda is treading on modder's collective ego" is not a compelling business reason :P) This doesn't mean they oughtn't be allowed to do it in an intelligent and respectful way, which so far it seems they haven't. We shall see, going forward.

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TrickyVein wrote:

TrickyVein wrote:

It's silly to accuse Bethesda of stealing mods or ideas though, as if it's morally reprehensible to take inspiration from something or to copy it. They can do what they want, and even if that makes some poor mod author somewhere feel less valued or slighted in some way, that's not really Bethesda's problem. They're the ones who choose to let other people mod their games at least as easily as they can be in the first instance, and a modder's time is something freely given. There's nothing more expected from anybody in that entire equation.

 

Absolutely Not. This passive attitude must stop. It only enables Bethesda and the Mod Thieves. And there absolutely is more to be expected from Bethesda here. Modders do all the work Bethesda can't be assed to do. They fix their bugs, their textures, finish their quests. It is time to stop letting Bethesda fuck us over and demand compensation, because we deserve it. What work does Bethesda do, truly? Very little. What work do modders do? Half their own mods, half the work Bethesda should have finished.

No. We will not be passive any longer and what you say is basically akin to saying that crime is okay. It is not, and you sould be ashamed of yourself. 

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Uh... alright dude. 

Uh... alright dude. 

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Yes, Bethesda only codes the

Yes, Bethesda only codes the engine, designs, creates all the assets, writes the story and implements it (quality aside), packages, markets and supports the game, creates the tools to make all of this and then has to sit and listen to people bitch and whine all the time about all the shit they do to fix their games.

Makes you want to be a dev right? Well that's the same shit YOU will get if you get paid.

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Destructoperson wrote:

Destructoperson wrote:

Absolutely Not. This passive attitude must stop. It only enables Bethesda and the Mod Thieves. And there absolutely is more to be expected from Bethesda here. Modders do all the work Bethesda can't be assed to do. They fix their bugs, their textures, finish their quests. It is time to stop letting Bethesda fuck us over and demand compensation, because we deserve it. What work does Bethesda do, truly? Very little. What work do modders do? Half their own mods, half the work Bethesda should have finished.

No. We will not be passive any longer and what you say is basically akin to saying that crime is okay. It is not, and you sould be ashamed of yourself. 

.... The next time you play TTW, if indeed you play TTW, take a look at the train stations. Take a look at the custom harvestables. Take a look at the weapon mods for FO3 weapons. You're talking directly to the cat that made all that stuff. I'd even go as far as to say he pours more effort into his work than some of the modelers that work at Bethsoft.  I'd also like to point out that he's right, and seems to be much more well versed in such things than yourself. This [Fallout] is Beth's world, and you're just playing/complaining in it.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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Well if Beth did everything

Well if Beth did everything that Destructoperson seems to think that they should have done then there probably wouldn't be much left for modders to actually do. Personally myself I'm glad that they don't so that we have the modders that we do have doing what they do. Geeze hope that made sense....

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Next Set of DLCs being

Next Set of DLCs being Released;

1.  Contraptions Workshop

2.  Build a Vault

3.  Nuka-World (World Space)

E3 DLC Update

Now if we could only get Bethesda to either bring back the old RPG feel or some how get them to take lessons from the Witcher 3 Wild Hunt writers, then perhaps we can get a real Fallout-centric RPG up and running again?  Instead of Fallout 4 Minecraft.

I was watching Witcher 3 Wild Hunt Youtube videos last night and was wishing Fallout 4 was just like that using Fallout canon of course.

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

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I hate to be the bearer of

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Bethesda makes their games more 'streamlined', not less. The closest you'll ever get to a Fallout game again is Wasteland, and it has much more in common with the Black Isle Fallouts than the Bethesda Fallouts. But hey- that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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I wish they would make a

I wish they would make a version of Wasteland II like Witcher 3 if Fallout is never going to be the same.  I agree that it is not a bad thing because it offers options but people do not like change to a title they grew to love over the decades even though it has changed ownership.

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

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KeltecRFB wrote:I wish they

KeltecRFB wrote:

I wish they would make a version of Wasteland II like Witcher 3 if Fallout is never going to be the same.  I agree that it is not a bad thing because it offers options but people do not like change to a title they grew to love over the decades even though it has changed ownership.

The change was made when Bethesda bought it. Wasteland 2 is just fine as is, and it should stay that way. To hell with trying to emulate Bethesda, that's a fool's game.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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OK, so let's do a rundown of

OK, so let's do a rundown of the game and DLC, since they are officially done with DLC after Nuka-World.

Base game

  • Fallout 4 base - $60
    • a.k.a. Borderlands 3 with a Minecraft mod

Stuff Packs

  • Automatron - $10
    • copy of RobCo Certified
  • Wasteland Workshop - $5
    • adds more buildable items
  • Contraptions Workshop - $5
    • adds more buildable items
  • Build a Vault - $5
    • adds more buildable items

Actual DLC

  • Far Harbor - $25
    • a.k.a. Point Lookout Redux
  • Nuka-World - $20
    • go shoot some raiders

 

I guess we should have seen this coming. 

  • Fo4 had 2 DLC packs and 4 stuff packs.
  • Skyrim had 2 DLC packs, and 1 stuff pack.
  • FNV had 4 DLC packs, and 2 stuff packs.
  • Fo3 had 5 DLC packs, and 0 stuff packs.
  • Oblivion had 2 DLC packs, and 8 PAID stuff packs.
  • Morrowind had 2 DLC packs, and 8 FREE stuff packs.

I guess we could have seen this coming, looking at the history of the TES games.  Unfortunately the bar was set too high by the previous Fallout games.

 
KeltecRFB
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TJ wrote:

TJ wrote:

The change was made when Bethesda bought it. Wasteland 2 is just fine as is, and it should stay that way. To hell with trying to emulate Bethesda, that's a fool's game.

I am not stating to make it like Bethesda, make it role playing like Witcher 3 immersing the player in a Fallout RPG world like the Witcher.  In other words, not isometric, but in 1st person with a switch to 3rd person with hardcore RPG elements.

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

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My main complaint about the

My main complaint about the Witcher series is there's no companion system.  You are on your own 99% of the time.

The Witcher series is getting pretty long in the tooth, but I guess they could make another one. 

What would be cooler though is if they made a post-apocalyptic game with the same basic engine and game mechanics.

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thermador wrote:

thermador wrote:

 

OK, so let's do a rundown of the game and DLC, since they are officially done with DLC after Nuka-World.

Was this announced that they are done? Where? (not that I doubt you Therm, just hadn't heard that)

If life is but a test, where's the damn answer key?!?!?

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Todd mentioned it in some

Todd mentioned it in some interview. I haven't watched it myself but here is a link. Link

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thermador wrote:

thermador wrote:

What would be cooler though is if they made a post-apocalyptic game with the same basic engine and game mechanics.

thermador, while not "post-apocalyptic" per-se, they are working on something not Witcher/high fantasy related.

http://cyberpunk.net/

Now coming from a old school pen-and-paper RPG player like myself, I have high hopes that CD Projekt Red can pull off a pretty compelling game set in "guns and chrome" Cyberpunk era. Been hoping for a game that could accurately bring in a Shadowrun/Cyberpunk setting and pay it proper respect. Perhaps they will pull it off.

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chucksteel wrote:

chucksteel wrote:

Todd mentioned it in some interview. I haven't watched it myself but here is a link. Link

Goodness me, how was that audio recorded?

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AnvilOfWar wrote:

AnvilOfWar wrote:

thermador, while not "post-apocalyptic" per-se, they are working on something not Witcher/high fantasy related.

http://cyberpunk.net/

Now coming from a old school pen-and-paper RPG player like myself, I have high hopes that CD Projekt Red can pull off a pretty compelling game set in "guns and chrome" Cyberpunk era. Been hoping for a game that could accurately bring in a Shadowrun/Cyberpunk setting and pay it proper respect. Perhaps they will pull it off.

Now that is what I am talking about! 

But would still love Fallout or Wasteland to be in that format as well with everything we loved about Fallout or Wasteland.

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

My new favorite, the IWI TC-21 Tavor

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I think cult and popular game

I think cult and popular game franchises shouldn't stray from what genre they already are. But I am also of the opinion that these franchises have plenty of room for spin-offs or genre addition. What I mean is Fallout should have always stayed isometric turn based games, Doom always FPS, Super Mario Bros always a 2D platformer, but then we have a great example of making spin-off games or adding new genre games to a franchise, like in my last example, Super Mario now has all kinds of games and genres, while Super Mario Bros is still a 2D-ish platformer that didn't stop Nintentdo from making spin-offs like Mario Kart, Mario RPG or Paper Mario, Mario 3D platformers, etc.

So in my opinion having the Fallout games being like the classic ones but then have the new Fallout First Person and the new Fallout Wasteland Monster Rancher or whatever, the new Fallout Strategy game, etc would still work. Why do Developers insist on just making one type of game is beyhond my imagination, since they could focus on the next big release of that franchise but still making side projects where they release spin-off games that are different genres, at least they can test the waters and see if those games are successful on their own (with the added bonus of having a recognizable franchise name to boost the sales).

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Risewild wrote:

Risewild wrote:

 

 Why do Developers insist on just making one type of game is beyhond my imagination

Bethesda did try to branch out twice with Battlespire and Redguard.  And both bombed to such an extent that they would have gone bankrupt if Morrowind hadn't sold well I've heard.  Presumably that close brush with financial ruin frightened them rather severely. 

But actually for some time now I've had a theory that Todd Howard has been gradually with each game making them more and and more like Redguard.  Redguard was the first game Todd Howard was head of and it is I think the kind of game Todd Howard actually wants to make.  Not rpgs but rather action adventure games with a set main character.  That is why he made Redguard the way it was. 

The trouble was that Redguard was too big a departure from Daggerfall for Bethesda's fans to buy into it.  So instead of trying to shift all at once he decided to change the style of game gradually so as to not alienate as much of the existing fanbase all at once.  Thus making each release more and more like Redguard.  Until eventually their games are completely like Redguard and Todd Howard can finally get to make the kind of games he has always wanted to make the entire time.  Action Adventure games like Redguard. 

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