Pages

80 posts / 0 new
Last post
Fallout10mm
Fallout10mm's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/08/2013 - 23:49
Karma: 1
 

 

I say replace the .32 version of the hunting rifle with This: 

Its a .22lr pump action.  Low level ammo, low damage, gives the player a use for ammo that they'd normaly ignore.

shower_thing
shower_thing's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 months ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 05:08
Karma: 0
Hey, why not make it .22lr?

Hey, why not make it .22lr? and their should be .22lr hunting rifles, instead of those OP .308 ones. 

or just have, ya know .32 back in the rifles and pistols.

Codor
Codor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
Joined: 10/14/2012 - 21:12
Karma: 11
I agree with you so much.

I agree with you so much.

Cataca
Cataca's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 01/21/2013 - 18:47
Karma: 45
I really hope that the silly

I really hope that the silly 32. hunting rifle will not be re-implemented in DC. It was a MAJOR ballance breaker and overpowered as hell.

1. The ammo was overabundant, every 3rd raider was using a 32. revolver, every second supermutant was using a hunting rifle, you never ran out, and i dont remember a single instance of fallout 3 where i had to actually BUY that ammo. 

2. High enough damage to one-hit KO with sneak criticals, high enough accuracy to pull them off consistently, high enough dps to kill before you were reached if you could not. (ie. why use any other weapon at all, if you are not literally swarmed by baddies)

3. Available from the get-go, feasable to the end, there shouldnt be ANY weapon like that. ever.

Iconic or not, the game ballance was rubbish i really hope that the dc hunting rifle dies in a fire.

I also *really* like the idea to keep the weapon/ammo pool from dc/nv the same / as identical as possible to maintain the easy modability. As others have suggested, there is a mod that'll make vermint rifles use 22lr, by keeping vermint rifles in the low level raider lists, you can practically mod your own "dc hunting rifle" as it was, without getting your endgame rifle when the game begins. 

torrential defect
torrential defect's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/11/2013 - 05:53
Karma: 0
I don't really get it why the

I don't really get it why the Varmint Rifle should be .22LR, if the abundance of 5.56mm becomes a problem, then just decrease the amount of ammo carried to like 2 or 4.

derp

Cataca
Cataca's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 01/21/2013 - 18:47
Karma: 45
I think its more about .22lr

I think its more about .22lr being a totally useless ammo and realistically varmint rifles would use that, instead of nato rounds.

I also think that the mod shouldn't change that itself, but instead enable the player to use a mod that changes that if they so wish. It'd be healthier for the project to keep at the basic balance NV introduced with weapons, instead of making two tiers of weapons with leveled lists you'd only see once, depending on where you start.

While we're at it, i think that new vegas did much better on the balance than fo3 did, and playing through fo3 again now, with raiders wielding crap weapons and me heaving to constantly switch through *all* my weapons because im so ammo starved is much more fun than the vanilla experience.  (playing with project nevada further enhances this by drastically reducing loot)

GodlyIXIGhost
GodlyIXIGhost's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 month ago
Joined: 12/16/2012 - 19:10
Karma: 0
Cataca wrote:

Cataca wrote:

I think its more about .22lr being a totally useless ammo and realistically varmint rifles would use that, instead of nato rounds.

Actually since 5.56 firearms can easily chamber .223, and 5.56 surplus is cheap and abundant in the states weapons made to 5.56 specs aren't that uncommon. Although I agree .22 is redundant and there's a round that does everything it does but better. So, I wouldn't mind and ok .22 bolt/lever/pump action firearm to help give it a purpose.

torrential defect
torrential defect's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/11/2013 - 05:53
Karma: 0
Speaking of raiders, they

Speaking of raiders, they should receive a some serious buffs. Currently, I can take down a raider group alone with a damn 9mm pistol.

Enclave soldiers seem to be pitifully weak, too.

derp

Shadow
Shadow's picture
Trusted Poster
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/08/2013 - 19:11
Karma: 44
I wouldn't be worried about

I wouldn't be worried about things being too weak, though raiders are pretty weak.  I'm more worried about how everything in Point Lookout can seem to kill me in just a few shots when I have a DT of 40.  I think we might want to tone down those shotguns or something.

Befo
Befo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 01/23/2013 - 19:59
Karma: 121
So I have read most of this

So I have read most of this thread (and noticed there were a few new posts, so I hope I am not necroing this discussion), but I don't seem to get the gist of it. 

I thought the purpose of TTW was not to change FO3 or FNV but to make them work together, and bring the FNV enhancements to FO3. Removing/altering a weapon ammo for balance or because certain people don't like it seems to me like it is more in the realm of a TTW addon mod rather than something that should be in the core mod. It also may turn people off who are looking into TTW and want as much of a vanilla experience as possible. Another concern is that certain modders may use the .32 round (for whatever reason) or make modificatins to the Hunting Rifle or .32 Pistol. By removing the round entirely, how will that affect those mods and their intended effects? It is my understanding that we want maximum compatibility with existing mods with TTW, so this seems kind of counter-productive. (I do understand the need for change with Shotgun Shells, but not for this one, sorry.)

My personal view, aside from the reasons I mentioned above, is that the .32 round should remain and the Hunting Rifle and .32 Pistol should remain ingame unchanged. To me, both weapons are iconic FO3 guns, with many memories of a nice, perfectly timed long distance headshot with my Hunting Rifle, or a Raider holding a .32 Pistol in my face, blasting away. If changes need to be made, they can be made my addon mods for TTW so that those who like the guns can have them in vanilla, and those that want them changed can use the extra mod. 

My two cents...

 

/befo

TJ
TJ's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/17/2012 - 06:06
Karma: 2842
Donor
Or it gets left how it is and

Befo wrote:

If changes need to be made, they can be made my addon mods for TTW so that those who like the guns can have them in vanilla, and those that want them changed can use the extra mod. 

Or it gets left how it is and anyone who wants these guns vanilla can slap in any FO3 mod that edits these items and bam! reverted to stock FO3 settings.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

JaxFirehart
JaxFirehart's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 09/11/2012 - 17:33
Karma: 3778
I explained it once before,

I explained it once before, implementing a special .32 Hunting Rifle would require putting in a whole new weapon. The FO3 hunting rifle and the FNV hunting rifle are mostly identical. The aesthetic for both FO3 and FNV is that they do not have multiple weapons that look the same but have different calibers. So we would have to make the .32 hunting rifle look different. Of course we couldn't call it ".32 Hunting Rifle" because that just sounds lame, so we gotta come up with a new name. Now, we have a gun that doesn't look like the hunting rifle and isn't named hunting rifle, so its a BRAND NEW weapon.

Or we accept the NV change that states that the hunting rifle is a .308 and then we are stuck with having only one weapon in the whole game that is .32 which, once again, is not done in either FO3 or FNV (alien power cells being a justifiable exception) so we have to make it use a new caliber. It's a no-win problem and I felt that removing .32 was the best solution. The hunting rifle and .32 pistol from fallout 3 are still present.

TJ
TJ's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/17/2012 - 06:06
Karma: 2842
Donor
Seems like you guys have to

Seems like you guys have to explain yourselves a lot when nobody listens most of the time. How many times has the load order been explained? Or like now: "I've read this whole thread and even though JaxFirehart's first post in this thread explains clearly and consisely exactly what is written in the post above this one, I think being confused about which Hunting Rifle I should fire is the way to go. All your hard work to make this mod perfect should go in an add-on mod for your add-on mod."

To anybody that doesn't like how TTW is coming together I say this: Change it. The tools are there and you have no less ability (in most cases) to learn than the guys making this happen.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

JaxFirehart
JaxFirehart's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 09/11/2012 - 17:33
Karma: 3778
Thanks for the support TJ.

Thanks for the support TJ. Believe me I did NOT want to remove .32 ammo. It IS my goal to keep TTW as close to FO3 as possible, but sometimes, like with this issue, a problem has no good solution, so I pick the lesser evil, whichever choice follows the Fallout design aesthetic closest. I mourn the loss of .32 but see it as a necessary loss.

Befo
Befo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 01/23/2013 - 19:59
Karma: 121
Sorry if I stepped on anyone

Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes for voicing my opinion (and after reading several posts which voice different opinions, I would hardly call the thread clear and concise.) TJ, I appreciate the way you tried marginalized my personal opinion. How awesome of you...Summer's Eve awesome. 

If you don't want to hear peoples opinions, then you shouldn't ask for them.

I do wonder how mods like CALIBR or CASE would be affected. 

BTW, it's not as if the two guns are identical in anything other than appearence. The Wiki basically has the stats of the FNV Hunting Rifle as twice those of the FO3 version, yet there are cries abound of the FO3 version being overpowered, and the FNV version is OK.  Doesn't make much sense to me. 

 

Edit: I am very thankful for the hard work being put into this mod. I certainly hope the mod authors do not find opinions and constructive criticism to be seen as disrespectful or disruptive. I always thought thats what these pages were for....discussion. Not disrespect is intended except to those who disrespect me. 
 

/befo

JaxFirehart
JaxFirehart's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 09/11/2012 - 17:33
Karma: 3778
Befo, you are right, this has

Befo, you are right, this has been a thread full of constant debate. I leave it open because I am still hoping to find a solution that allows keeping .32 ammo. Any solution that includes making a new hunting rifle is out. Any solution that requires implementing new weapons is out. Any solution that involves modifying NV weapons is out. Any solution that is not logically sound is out. Within those criteria I could not think of a solution, but proposals are welcome.

Aconagent1
Aconagent1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 5 months ago
Joined: 12/02/2012 - 09:38
Karma: 161
As long as we're off-topic
As long as we're off-topic and on vault suits, I know you don't want to change FNV, but it should be made that the vault 21 chick takes FO3 vault suits for her unmarked quest... Or even better, if you try to give her the vault 77 suit, she flees and doesn't talk to you any more *edit* sorry, I was a page behind XD. My 2 cents on .32 ammo is to keep it, make the Chinese pistol what it was in real life (automatic, higher damage, higher tier), then make the .32 pistol the normal low level gun of the raiders.

-Conso

JaxFirehart
JaxFirehart's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 09/11/2012 - 17:33
Karma: 3778
Whats-her-face SHOULD already

Whats-her-face SHOULD already take DC vault suits, I like the idea of having her bail for the V77 suit. As I've said before, it's not that we are against modifying FNV, I made some pretty heavy modifications to ensure that cross-wasteland companions work properly and the .32 pistol and american assault rifle should be able to be found in NV. What we are doing if avoiding superfluous modifications. So having V21 take DC vault suits is perfectly acceptable, but having her flee upon receiving the 77 suit is too much, should go in an optional add-on.

As for your suggestion, that still doesn't fix the issue of only one gun in the whole game using .32.

TJ
TJ's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/17/2012 - 06:06
Karma: 2842
Donor
Befo, I appologize for coming

Befo, I appologize for coming off like a jackass before. I'm not trying to marginilize your or anyone's opinion. Jax has stated why .32 is gone on more than one occasion. I wasn't trying to call the thread clear and consise, just Jax's reasoning for removing the ammo and changing the gun. My opinion is that the way this issue is dealt with is fine. If enough people want it the way it was in FO3 I'll make an esp that reverts .32 pistol and FO3 Hunting Rifle to stock stats. That was my whole point in the last post: TTW leaves plenty of room to mod.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

Befo
Befo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 01/23/2013 - 19:59
Karma: 121
No worries, TJ. I apologize

No worries, TJ. I apologize as well for my response. I recently had a heart attack which forced me to quit smoking, and without the nicotine I get kind of touchy at times. Nicotine patches help a little bit, but it's just not the same. Then of course Jericho has to light up and smoke right in front of me...raider bastard. 

 

A patch that reverts the .32 weapons to vanilla would be appreciated, but I guess that still leaves the problem of what to call it, lol.

/befo

thermador
thermador's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Joined: 08/07/2012 - 07:24
Karma: 1166
Donor
Befo wrote:No worries, TJ. I

Befo wrote:

No worries, TJ. I apologize as well for my response. I recently had a heart attack which forced me to quit smoking, and without the nicotine I get kind of touchy at times. Nicotine patches help a little bit, but it's just not the same. Then of course Jericho has to light up and smoke right in front of me...raider bastard.

Holy crap!  Hope you get better.  Quitting smoking is hard as hell -- but that's because it's worth it. 

The only way to get true peace of mind is to force yourself to associate the smell of tobacco with something gross and disgusting, and not something warm and desirable.  It's very hard to mentally restructure your sense of smell, but until you do, you will crave a smoke every time you pass someone on the street who's smoking.  It is hell living like that.  Keep your head up man.

yukichigai
yukichigai's picture
Trusted Poster
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: 09/11/2012 - 18:28
Karma: 59
JaxFirehart wrote:

JaxFirehart wrote:

I explained it once before, implementing a special .32 Hunting Rifle would require putting in a whole new weapon. The FO3 hunting rifle and the FNV hunting rifle are mostly identical. The aesthetic for both FO3 and FNV is that they do not have multiple weapons that look the same but have different calibers. So we would have to make the .32 hunting rifle look different. Of course we couldn't call it ".32 Hunting Rifle" because that just sounds lame, so we gotta come up with a new name. Now, we have a gun that doesn't look like the hunting rifle and isn't named hunting rifle, so its a BRAND NEW weapon.

Actually, .32 Hunting Rifle would be just fine if you think of "hunting rifle" as weapon type rather than a weapon name.  I mean, we have .357 Revolver, .44 Revolver, 9mm Pistol, 10mm Pistol, etc. etc.  Having a .32 Hunting Rifle and a .308 Hunting Rifle would be just fine and dandy on that basis.

As for making it look different, a simple reskin would do the job.  No need to create a new shape, just a new skin, possibly even just a color shift or something.

Befo
Befo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 01/23/2013 - 19:59
Karma: 121
I think yukichigai nailed it

I think yukichigai nailed it

/befo

JaxFirehart
JaxFirehart's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 09/11/2012 - 17:33
Karma: 3778
JaxFirehart wrote:

JaxFirehart wrote:

Any solution that includes making a new hunting rifle is out. Any solution that requires implementing new weapons is out. Any solution that involves modifying NV weapons is out. Any solution that is not logically sound is out.

Gotta stand firm on this, sorry.

Befo
Befo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 01/23/2013 - 19:59
Karma: 121
I thought yuki's solution met

I thought yuki's solution met that criteria. It is only renaming the two existing weapons, so no new weapons are being implemented? If the .308 cal rifle is left as is, and only the FO3 .32 version gets a color change/new skin to the exiting model, the .308 (NV weapon) isn't being modified, and very little is being changed on the .32 rifle? His solution also seems logically sound, given the naming conventions of the other weapons he mentioned. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't see exactly where it is violating the standards you have set. 

On a separate note, I understand one of the concerns listed before was that so few weapons were using an ammo type, either just the two .32 weapons or just one (the pistol) if the rifle is kept as the FNV version. I just wanted to mention that the BB gun is the only weapon to use it's ammo type, same with the Railway Rifle, Nail Gun, Dart Gun, Missile Launcher and the Fat Man. (Unique versions wouldn't count I'd think, but even so there are unique versions of the .32 cal weapons.)

I guess another thing I don't understand is how the FNV Huning Rifle is statistically superior the .32 Hunting Rifle of FO3, but the FO3 version is considered overpowered? 

.32 Hunting Rifle, 25 dmg/attack, 18.8dps, 25 crit dmg, x1 crit multiplier, 0.8 atk/second, 25AP, 0.3 spread
.308 Hunting Rifle, 52 dmg/attack, 49.3dps, 52 crit dmg, x2 crit multiplier, 0.9 atk/second, 40AP, 0.01 spread

From these stats, the FNV .308 is about twice as powerful in most categories as the FO3 .32. The only place where the .32 really has the advantage is in AP cost. Am I missing something?

/befo

Shadow
Shadow's picture
Trusted Poster
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/08/2013 - 19:11
Karma: 44
Hmm, I rather like that

Hmm, I rather like that proposal.  Then if we're still worried about it not being used enough, there are always optional mods to add more guns that use it.

TJ
TJ's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 09/17/2012 - 06:06
Karma: 2842
Donor
This is just a guess but I'm

This is just a guess but I'm gonna assume the NV hunting rifle is a higher tiered weapon than the FO3 variant, making it less common and available later in the game. I think that's why it's not considered overpowered. As for FO3's version being considered overpowered, if I remember right it's available pretty early and can be used for most of the game. Again, this is all just speculation. Would love someone to elaborate. As for Yuki's very valid point: it fails Jax's requirements with the renaming of the NV weapon.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

Risewild
Risewild's picture
Moderator
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 55 min ago
Joined: 10/01/2012 - 02:14
Karma: 3012
Yep, the FO3 hunting rifle

Yep, the FO3 hunting rifle was available quite early and we could play most of the game using it, because of the range and accuracy was like a sniper rifle lil'sister. I remember the first time I played FO3 I pretty much did the entire game using a hunting rifle in my inventory since I got one, later I added a combat shotgun for close quarters and pretty much beat the crap out of everything, didn't need sniper rifle or Lincoln's repeater or anything like that for that matter.

I would like to see the FO3 hunting rifle still in play, but I also have to agree with Jax requirements, I think that for now it is good as it is, but once TTW get's to beta or even closer to release version I am all in favor of having tons of mods that put back certain things and change others and whatever after all that's why people mod games.

JaxFirehart
JaxFirehart's picture
Administrator
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 09/11/2012 - 17:33
Karma: 3778
Tired of talking in circles,

Tired of talking in circles, closing.

Pages

Topic locked