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dandys
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CROSS-CONTENT DISCUSSION: Main Quest

How do you all think we should do the main quest?

I get that maybe in the first release there won't be any coherence and you'll have to use console or something to get between wastelands but this is for later.

My vote is for starting in the vault, and only being able to travel to New Vegas *somehow, I don't care how* after the main quest is complete. Problem is that'd require Broken Steel. So I don't know. Let's come up with ideas.

Some things to consider are

is it important to have an option to start in either zone? Realize that starting in New Vegas then going to Capital Wasteland would make absolutely no sense unless we made a complicated code to autocomplete the Fallout 3 main quest as if some other guy did it, which would be cool but weird.

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Edited by: dandys on 09/12/2012 - 17:20
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Well I intend that to be one

Well I intend that to be one of the differences between the base version and the fully-integrated version (we need to come up with names for these). In the base version, I vote for a startup menu to allow people to choose which game they want. Since the two wastelands are separate in that version, there won't be any conflict from allowing the player to start wherever. In the integrated version (hmm how about TTW_Core and TTW_Fusion) I, unforutnately, vote that we force the player to start in the vault. I put some thought into how to get the player to NV from DC.

We need to require the player to finish the wasteland survival guide quest (because they are found throughout the mojave).

As for the main quest, that is a sticky situation. Here are my thoughts: Up until you find James in Tranquility Lane, stuff in DC is basically at an impasse, the enclave has no idea how to get project purity working and the brotherhood is sufficiently capable of fighting off their advances. It feels to me like this stalemate has been in effect for a while. Once you rescue james, shit gets rolling for real, at that point until the end, I vote we restrict travel to NV. As long as the player has finished the survival guide and either not rescued james, or has defeated the enclave, the can travel. I have no issue with requiring Broken Steel. For that matter, I have no problem requiring all DLCs. But that is a discussion for a future date.

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Ok. Just an aside (not

Ok. Just an aside (not imporant compared to the main quest) but for the survival guide a trick I used in my personal version was to have global values controlling survival guide leveled lists and an x-marker set to the enable parent for all the survival books. The success stages of Wasteland Survival Guide quest then set the chancenone global value from 100 to 0 (like with Broken Steel aqua pura in lits), adding the guide to leveled lists like skillbookswhatever, and enables the marker that enables the game references.

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I was considering something

I was considering something very similar to that myself. The only downside I see is that, once you finish the wasteland survival guidem suddenly books pop into existence over in the Mojave. Something I was thinking was having a skin change of sorts. Survival books in DC could be "Army Survival Handbooks" and survival books in the mojave are "Wasteland Survival Guides." Just a thought, this is a pretty sticky situation, probably one of the biggest issues for us to overcome.

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JaxFirehart wrote:

JaxFirehart wrote:

I was considering something very similar to that myself. The only downside I see is that, once you finish the wasteland survival guidem suddenly books pop into existence over in the Mojave. Something I was thinking was having a skin change of sorts. Survival books in DC could be "Army Survival Handbooks" and survival books in the mojave are "Wasteland Survival Guides." Just a thought, this is a pretty sticky situation, probably one of the biggest issues for us to overcome.

That was basically the way I handled it, since the Big Guns skill is no longer useful.  I just renamed the things "30 Handy Survival Tips", rather than "30 Handy Flamethrower Recipes", and left it at that.  Justifying it in lore would be difficult, but honestly I think we're entitled to a little wiggle room here.

EDIT: Oh yes, as far as the main quest goes, without Broken Steel it would be pretty easy to just make sure you don't die if you convince Sarah Lyons to go start the reactor instead of you.  We can modify things a little bit to remove her from the game, dropping you outside Project Purity with the BoS still in force and guarding it.  Not sure what dialog, if any, would be available, and some of it might get a little weird, but that's stuff to polish later.  The broad strokes - Project Purity active, you aren't dead - is easy enough.

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I'm sorry but at this point,

I'm sorry but at this point, atleast Fo3 side related, we shouldnt have to worry about DLC compatibility. People should allready have it and if they dont that just sucks for them, the game is what? 4 years old at this point! The only reason it shouldn't be the case is if we release a vanilla file with no DLC support.

Also on a side note as far as traveling to NV, why not another beacon thing in the Mojave from Mothership zeta after completion? No one to my knowledge ever brought that up, as rediculous as that DLC was it's I guess lore friendly. Just throwing another option out there. I like the train method myself, as as much as I hate MZ it makes some if not more sense than any other way of crossing wastelands.

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steviestevens wrote:

steviestevens wrote:

I'm sorry but at this point, atleast Fo3 side related, we shouldnt have to worry about DLC compatibility. People should allready have it and if they dont that just sucks for them, the game is what? 4 years old at this point! The only reason it shouldn't be the case is if we release a vanilla file with no DLC support.

Also on a side note as far as traveling to NV, why not another beacon thing in the Mojave from Mothership zeta after completion? No one to my knowledge ever brought that up, as rediculous as that DLC was it's I guess lore friendly. Just throwing another option out there. I like the train method myself, as as much as I hate MZ it makes some if not more sense than any other way of crossing wastelands.

Honestly I think we could have multiple methods for traversing between the Mojave and the CW.  Like you said, there are several opportunities, why not use them all?  The Mothership Zeta TP, a train tunnel, traveling caravan, just hoofing it along US 50 and hooking a left when you hit Nevada... lots of options.  I see no reason why we should constrain ourselves there.  Each could have its own advantages, e.g. the Zeta one is instantaneous but requires you fully complete Zeta and perhaps wait for things to recharge (few days?), versus the train someone proposed which would be available at any time but would advance the game date a bit.

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Travel between wastelands

Hi Im protectorcrimson know as athense, I was a writer that was recruited by kuro shortly before it was shut down on the nexus.  We had soem major descusions on how to expand   the story and what would happen to the CW after you returned from NV and perhaps play after the end for NV. some ideas were to integrate mods togeather like dog city, boulder dome,  Alton il. and his own ideas to ad verity and add the feeling that you were achually traveling between wastelands.  IF you like I could go through my old folders and see if I still have the brain storm ideas. As well I would like to help with this porject if you eventually get to the point that you can build the story. Kuro had a neat idea to of his with the bad company faction he created.   I am also a fan fiction writer for the Mothership zeta crew mod,  and that was also A mod i suggested as a way to travel between wastelands.    

If your curious my writings are on fanfiction.net and i use the same username there to.  

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I appreciate the offer and

I appreciate the offer and would love to hear some of your brainstoms, thing is, we won't be at the point of expanding the game for some time. The team has agreed that, for now, our goal is simply to get FO3 feeling right and working properly. After that we need to test and update the DLCs and then, finally, we are free to truly start expanding.

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Hi, just out of curiosity,

Hi, just out of curiosity, could it be done in such a manner that once you've completed the wasteland survival guide quest proper you set it so that after a certain amount of time has passed you can join up with a BoS caravan that takes correspondance between the West and Eastcoast BoS. With explination that they also bought a number of the guides in DC, and just sold them as they went along. They did after all make it to the other side of the country one way or another, and it also gives some legitimacy for the Lone Wanderer also being the Courier.

The idea of traveling along with a caravan also just sits better with me than a transcontinental rail line that's still in opperable condition. If that were the case it undermines the entire BoS back story in FO3, that they're mostly cut off from the west coast brotherhood with the outcasts in particular looking for a means to establish direct communication.

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Consider the rail line a work

Consider the rail line a work in progress. My vision (this is the first I've said it aloud, so its not set in stone) is to do very much like you suggested. After completing the wasteland survival guide you are contacted by the bos who are looking into repairing the rail line. You get a free ticket, hop on the train and begin your journey. As you travel across the country, you stumble onto sections of track that need repairing in order to continue. You must either pay the locals to fix it, persuade them, intimidate them or do a quest (or some combination of those options) after which they repair the tracks and you continue on. Eventually you reach New Vegas. After you have been to NV and completed Mothership Zeta, you can teleport directly from the ship to either NV or DC making another travel method.

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Lore-wise, the East BoS is

Lore-wise, the East BoS is essentially excommunicated from the Western BoS, so that alone falls flat. I think one of the best ways to make travel between both Wastelands is caravans. Of course, I can see a train working. If people can make the Hoover Dam work, I'm pretty damn sure they can make a train work.

 

But as of Honest Hearts, Caravans used to travel to New Canaan, which is in Utah. So I can see Caravans going from Utah to Colorado, from Colorado to Kansas, etc. You can hitch rides with more than one Caravan from Nevada to Washington, and it wouldn't be very far-fetched. Caravans usually take safe routes, and they usually have bodyguards or mercenaries with 'em, so the trip there COULD be relatively safe. Of course, this trip would take quite a long time.

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Excommunicated is a bit

Excommunicated is a bit extreme, the western BoS never disowned Lyons' BoS, they are just no longer sending support, which still kind of kills this idea. Of course with the Mojave BoS all but dead, it would make good sense for them to try to set up lines of supply and communication.

All that in mind, it might make more sense for a caravan company to want to set up a railway rather than BoS.

I'm not stubborn about keeping the train travel method, but chuck and ugsquish put much effort into the building the stations, I would hate to see all that work go to waste.

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If I'm remembering correctly

If I'm remembering correctly it's not so much that the Eastern Brotherhood was excomunicated as they were simply cut off. Elder Lyons is officially an Elder, but with that also came a complete stoppage of support with regards to supplies and personel. Given that even if the Western Brotherhood fully backed Lyon's mission they don't have the resources to do anything about it and even the Brotherhood in the Mojave is fairly cut off. The ties still exist though, especially in the form of Arthur Maxson who is for lack of a better word Brotherhood Royalty.

As for the travel time, I think I remember hearing/reading somewhere or other that it took around 3 months for Lyon's group to stumble from one end of the country to the other. The Brotherhood of course are a trained military organization so it stands to reason they were able to make much better time than a caravan could, even without an established trail. Though given that it has been roughly what? 20 years since the Brotherhood came to DC there has got to be someone out there has established a route.

Or you could just fly like the Enclave did. It's not like Vertibirds run out of power. Though that would be more of a post Broken Steel adventure, unless you somehow stole a Vertibird triggered an auto-pilot and wound up in the Mojave instead of Navaro or something.

Ultimately you guys are going to do whatever it is you're going to do, either because no one can convince you to rethink your position, or because you've found a solution that is simply more efficient regardless of it was the initial goal. One way or the other, I look forward to seeing what it is that happens.

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There are a lot of ways you

There are a lot of ways you could travel between the wastelands, but none of them solve the problem of what to do with the Fallout 3 main quest if you start in New Vegas.  It's SO much easier to just start in DC and do the character gen there.  Then, once the DC chargen is complete, if they want to head straight off to NV and let dear old dad rot, then let them go for it.

Maybe this should just be the defacto method in TTW and then the NV start-point and/or quickstart could be included in an additional mod.  It would certainly make TTW easier to complete if there was only one "standard" way to start the game.

The only idea I have for a realistic, sensical way to start in NV and go to DC would be: find a note / get a letter / somehow start a quest about your dad being seen in DC and a way to travel there.  Once travel is complete, skip the whole vault 101 thing and start off in megaton searching for your dad.

Speaking of travel methods, here are the notes I have on travel methods.  Maybe we should build them all!  That would be really cool.

Train

  • Pros: already built, could easily be expanded as Jax described, with more stops and quests to fix parts of the line
  • Cons: needs more work to expand realism

Vertibird

  • Pros: already built - see AbsoluteAnarchy's travel mod, which I have contributed to.  Also, decently realistic and easy to port to TTW.  And it has videos!
  • Cons: needs more work to expand realism

Caravans

  • Pros: very realistic, lore-appropriate, and easy to build a simple setup where you just talk to people and then you travel straight to the other wasteland.  It could be expanded to include many stops and quests like the way Jax described for the rail.
  • Cons: would need to be built, could get complicated.

Mothership Zeta (or some other alien tech)

  • Pros: awesome!
  • Cons: would need to be built, could get complicated, would likely require that people at least start the Zeta quest.

Walking

  • Pros: arguably the most realistic
  • Cons: would require a massive amound of work to generate all of the terrain and encounters to walk from NV to DC.  Lots of roadbuilding.
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The train would actually make

The train would actually make a lot more sense if it were initiated from the NV side. The NCR is trying to expand their domain and having a train that covers half the country is an excellent step toward that.

The vertibird method is awesome, but vertibirds are hard to come by even in the NCR, so it would need to be difficult or expensive for the player to acquire.

The caravan is the longest of the travel methods, and I basically agree with everything you said...

Zeta travel method is the fastest and would actually be pretty easy to code you just have to do mothership zeta first.

Walking I don't think will make it into TTW any time soon, if ever. The shear amount of man hours required to implement that is rediculous.

Seeing those options, I would like to implement them all. I would like the vertibird to be a quest of sorts to repair/upgrade a vertibird so it can make the journey, Zeta is basically ready as it sits, where you have to finish a quest in order to use it. I think the caravan should be the only way to get from DC to NV at first, then, once the player has been there, they can teleport from Zeta, or upgrade the vertibird and fly.

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Good base mod for a zeta transport system

Good base mod for a zeta transport system 

http://fallout3.nexusmods.com/mods/8747

After being finished

and there is a  new vegas expansion.

http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/42819

 

 

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Just an update for everyone

Just an update for everyone who cares: For now the travel method will go as it did before, you go to union station, buy your ticket and board a train to NV. The first time you do this, it plays the intro video from FNV, including you being shot in the head. I feel this does a good job of implying that you have forgottern everything that has happened between boarding the train and getting shot.

This is not final. I just think its an excellent temporary (if not permanent) solution.

Thoughts?

 

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Sounds good to me. Simple,
Sounds good to me. Simple, easy to implement, and importantly, it makes sense with the story and isn't immersion-breaking. The rest of the transport stuff can be built in later or contributed by other team members.
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The idea of a

The idea of a transcontinental rail line working and being something as simple as buying a ticket still really takes me out of the setting in a huge way. Considering it implies that there's a reason for them to have one, and that  there are people who routinely travel along it, maintain it and so on. It really makes most of the fallout 3 plot elements laughably pointless. The outcasts have absolutely no reason for being outcasts. The NCR has an actual government science program and a history of conflict with the Enclave making it hard to think they wouldn't become involved in project purity for their own reasons. Even if they were already spread thin. The brotherhood simply does not have the resources to even try something like that.

But I seem to be in the minority about this, and it's not gonna stop me from using the mod. I'll most likely just do my best to agressively ignore their being a train and use the coc command or something.

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I'm not saying we won't

I'm not saying we won't improve upon it, if you can give some constructive suggestions. I will not let all of that work go for naught. To me, the fact that you black out and don't remember anything that happens in the four years between boarding the train and getting shot allows for the player to make up whatever story they wish to happen between the two. If buying the ticket is your problem, I agree its too easy and doesn't really make any sense, but that is easy to remedy once we decide on a method to do so. Off the top of my head, you could discover the train station and find the train in generally working order, but you are required to repair it, creating a quest that requires you to scour the wasteland for replacement parts.

As for ignoring the train and coc-ing everywhere, how is that more immersive than to actually use the damn train ;)

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I'm just really extremely

I'm just really extremely picky when it comes to thing that touch upon lore. And a train is such a big thing... It's not like, a car or a truck where you could reasonably say "okay I worked hard and I got this thing only I have, and it's special" with more flexibility in terms of the "how" of traveling trains are huge things that run specific courses that require an industry to keep running.

This isn't perhaps constructive criticism, in fact I know it's not. I'm just nit picking, especially given the fact that traveling to New Vegas from DC or the other way around isn't exactly a major plot point. It just creates little conflicts that normally you probably wouldn't notice, especially because a lot of them already exist. Kind of like playing an FPS game and never noticing the tires on the cars use really low res textures.

cocing isn't really more immersive, it's just less... Touristy. And I can come up with my own explination as to how I got there. Or I could just be not-lazy and make my own travel mod. It's not that difficult to rig something basic up. At any rate, I wouldn't want you to let any work go to waste. That would be counter to everything, and I rather like being optomistic about this mod.

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Well I'm a bit of a lore

Well I'm a bit of a lore hound myself and I try to just ignore the fact that the train doesn't make much sense. I did some research on track maintenence and, it appears, that trains can go over just about anything, long as the tracks are the proper distant apart. The problem comes from speed. Poorly maintained tracks must be traversed slowly in order to avoid incident.

Not trying to convince you, I agree the train isn't the best solution, fact is its the easiest at the moment. In time you will have a host of methods to choose from, I'd bet my left testi on it.

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About the different travel

About the different travel methods:

I think the train would be not so lorebraking if there would be an explanation on how it is still intact.

It is fallout, so it could be like robots clearing or building a special train tunnel for some reason.

Maybe its enough to find a note or add some NPC/Robots that maintaining the train.

Or the train is not going all the why to NV only half way and the rest by carawan to an NCR trainstation.

I just don't like the fact that there is a train with a ticket system, but nobody working on it.

Maybe just finding a note that it is an automatic system that keep the train operational would be enough.

Regards,

Darkersun

- semi FNV Modder
- Wasteland lover

- System Spec: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T / MSI GTX 970 /12GB DDR3 RAM

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I really like this method of

I really like this method of travel, fairly lore-friendly (sorta): Requiem for the Capital Wasteland Outcast Travel Point

I mostly like it because its very easy and makes some sense. It's a lot better than a man hole.

My big problem with the train is that I highly doubt there is enough track left to take one (even three or four) train rides to the other side of the country. A Vertibird can refuel almost everywhere (siphoning), and doesn't depend on destroyed infrastructure. Plus, the Vertibird stopping for fuel can be used for additional encounters along the way.

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I happen to like the train,

I happen to like the train, considering there was an actual train station at the end of Freemont Street in the 50s. I think you could easily add robots if the lore was fuzzy for some. I don't know about you, but I remember a certain Presidential Metro quest very well. Optimally robots have been following their protocol and repairing certain tracks for years, but the station hasn't been used for lack of gumption, intelligence, science/repair check. There's a lot of computers in train stations in the Wasteland that have never been accessed.

Walking's a mess. It's not feasible. You can't expect the current team to do it and get it done.

Vertibird is feasible, but lore-wise, it really should only be accessed at the end of a certain Broken Steel quest. When you actually have access to a vertibird. Same case with Mothership Zeta. You need access to the ship. It would reward players that have actually completed these DC quests. However, it shouldn't be used as the main transport, because that would preclude players from traveling for far too long into the game.

Tale of Two Wastelands isn't adding content to New Vegas, so a reverse reward transportation for Mojave players is probably outside discussion. Maybe as an add-on.

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I like your thinking on

I like your thinking on everything, I agree with all of it. We ARE going to ADD content to FNV if/where it is appropriate, we will NOT change anything unless it is absolutely necessary. So please, if you have any ideas on how to get from NV to DC shout them out.

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For New Vegas reverse

For New Vegas reverse-transport, I would have two rewards.

You could travel from the Boomers at the completion of a certain quest. They have a plane. It would require some effort on the modder's part to build a door/interior, however, it makes sense. In DC, there are two airports. (Obviously there's another, but we don't want double quest requirments.) One of them's Rivet City. I strongly suggest having the Boomers land there. The reason will be apparent shortly. The other option is the Washington DC Airport. It was lore-only mentioned, because it got scrapped and became Megaton. We couldn't add anything really substantial to the area, because of the apparent theft. But we could add a small strip somewhere outside. Alternatively you could pick a fort and attach a hanger, or create a new building. Again, I suggest Rivet City.

The DLC reward could be from Old World Blues, particularly the transportalpondar, except it doesn't operate out of the Mojave area. You could still create another reward though. Or you could remove the limitations of the transportalpondar.  Honest Hearts added the idea of going by caravan, but then you get into the walking dilemma again. Maybe not. Although I wouldn't implement it. 

You could also scrap the idea of getting a DLC reward, and well... attach your poor character to a ghoul rocket. Don't really suggest it or advise it, but it could be done.

One consideration, if we include multiple traveling points is spacing them apart. The train stops in New Vegas. You don't want anything else to stop in New Vegas. Similarly you don't want everything to stop in Megaton. You don't want all the stops to be in Goodsprings.

There are some lore considerations. The train really should stop in Freeside to make sense. But while Mothership Zeta's ideal drop off point might to be to the Wild Wasteland perk (Horwitz Homestead, Brooks Tumbleweed), it could go anywhere. The player has command of the ship. You could place the drop off point wherever you think most players want to bunker down, or at a corner of the map the other areas have not already accessed. Possibly you could script multiple drop off points. I remember a console window popping up for teleportation between Wasteland and Zeta.

The Vertibird could drop off at the Brotherhood Bunker, the Cezador hangers, Searchlight Airport, or a new building. (Although interesting, the Nellis Airforce Base gets into the issue of double requirements.) The Brotherhood Bunker is most lore-friendly --- you'd think the Brotherhood vertibird would land at a Brotherhood base. However the lockdown, Veronica companion quest issues, and constant dust storms might bring up issues with some players. The Cezador hangers are quest-free, but also cezador-full. This might be irritating to even high level BOS players. The Searchlight Airport has a heaping dose of radiation nearby, although it is otherwise unused. It's not an optimal place to bunker down, but it seems logical enough. And lastly, there's the option of a new building. A new building would have to be placed well. The Requiem Mod had it near Goodsprings, which may be what you're looking for in terms of transitioning seamlessly between games, but it did add content.

On the Wasteland side, the current train stop cuts close to Megaton, which is great for a single mod, however it might lead to some overflow if you created other travel points nearby. If you don't, leave it. You already have a piece nearly done, why change it? You might realign it to the mentioned Platz metro station. But it's really not a necessary change. Station's great. I'm happy.

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Hello everyone. First I want

Hello everyone. First I want to thank you for this great mod. I had a idea about the travel method between the two wastelands.

I want to preface this by saying I'm biased towards starting in the Mohave. I use Arwens mod and it doesn't kick in until you leave Doc Mitchells place. Why couldn't Doc help us "regain our memories" of the Capital Wasteland.  We could select at what age we want to start, I rarely want to do all of vault 101, and a "wake me from this nightmare" option to return to Doc's place.

Well shoot, as I write this it seems obvious that equipment and stuffs aren't going to transfer very well. I guess I'll vote for a vertibird or caravan as transport, they can transport a few people but not an army.

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I'm probably in the minority,

I'm probably in the minority, especially considering I'm just a modder and not a designer, but I'd almost rather not see the story changed. I enjoy where it is now because you have access to either NV or 3 from the beginning. It is kinda lore breaking... but being forced to play through F3 before getting to FNV seems kinda... it seems like it kind of defeats the purpose of a merge between the two games. It would still be nice to do, but could the story overhaul be contained in an extra plugin, so that those of us who don't want it can still use the updated versions of the mod?

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I think perhaps yes, in the

I think perhaps yes, in the merged version make the stories run sequentially. However, have a menu otion upon starting vegas that asks "Is the courier the lone wanderer?" and carries your character across (skipping the facegen/special etc slection stuff Doc Mitchell asks you) if you say they are, or not if you don't. I always figured the Courier and Wanderer were different people, what with crossing the whole of post-nuclear America, not having a pipboy and so forth, but I can see how it'd be easy enough to link the stories and would make sense if they were linked into one game like TTW.

trollolololololol


 

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warning potential tl;dr ahead

warning potential tl;dr ahead

I have only done rudimentary mods for my own use and am in no way a designer, but I am good an analyzing situations and making narratives and connections.

From my stand point there are a few questions that need to be asked.

First, in terms of sequence, NV takes place long after Fo3 so any arguments in terms of continuity or lore need to be placed on the side if it is decided that we want individuals to be able to move freely from one zone to the other.

If we forgo this, time become an issue. With Dead money, how many coins will an individual be earning simply by moving back and forth? If its anything but high speed travel it could be potentially a cheat system.

further if individuals can move freely, what is happening in each area over the vast swaths of time the courier/lone wander is moving about.

Given these time components, I find it hard to agree with anything except a teleport. however this necessitates both a DC start and having completed mothership zeta.

I see a few viable options, the courier is a descendent of the lone wanderer, and in a very Assassins creed fashion, DC takes place in dreams.

This would solve temporal issues, but raises issues of equipment.

Thus, dreams are not good.

The teleport has issues.

The vertibird has the same problem as the zeta option.

The train takes to long. And we have exhausted ideas.

 

Thus I have a recommendation.

A Dc start with a quest to become a courier. This quest can be engaged any time between leaving the vault and the first encounter with your dad and after the retaking of project purity. This solve means and time. The most that would be added would be a DC express branch that offers a high paying and tantalizing job. Bring this chip out west and link up with the Mojave express. Once accepted New Vegas can begin. Now as for the return trip. We can implement the train. It will just require a bit of addition. For those of you that know what COG is skip below. COG stands for Continuity of Government and is a current government program by which parts of the US are designated as alternative operation centers for peace time facilities. One of these Facilities is Raven rock :) yes folks Raven rock is the alternative site for the department of defense in the event of full-scale war. The one closes to the Mojave is Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado.

Now with that explained, I see two options. First we can incorporate the dog city idea, and use the explanation of COG to link the pentagon and/or Raven Rock to Colorado and then through a train or Dog city to the Mojave. Or using the hand wave of story telling, explain that it was also connected to somewhere in the Mojave area.

What was doing the connection? An underground railroad. Though currently in the realm of conspiracy theory, the idea of an underground transcontinental railway could easily be passed as lore friendly, given that that the system was designed to withstand a nuclear war, we can say that the facilities are still intact and the only remaining problem is time and propulsion.

Mode of movement can be hand waved as well, (underground nuclear power plant) (cold fusion) (fuel depots) (geothermal) (tesla tech) sky is the limit really. In terms of time, if its underground there will be no obstacles and three day transcontinental freight is far from unheard of. And this would also solve our time problem.

Lastly cog was implemented in the early 50’s and the latest day of timeline divergence is early 60’s so in terms of lore this also is functional.

Sorry for the Tl;dr, but hopefully it will spark ideas.

 

edit: also, if need be, the common wealth can be used for hand waving and/or a source of deus ex machina.

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Zatsuya wrote:

Zatsuya wrote:

First, in terms of sequence, NV takes place long after Fo3 so any arguments in terms of continuity or lore need to be placed on the side if it is decided that we want individuals to be able to move freely from one zone to the other.

Is three years "long after"?  Fallout 3 takes place in 2277-2278.  Fallout New Vegas takes place in 2281-2282.  See: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2277

So only a couple years apart.

Zatsuya wrote:

If we forgo this, time become an issue. With Dead money, how many coins will an individual be earning simply by moving back and forth? If its anything but high speed travel it could be potentially a cheat system.

Dead Money generates 100 chips every three days (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Abandoned_BoS_Bunker#Notes).  So moving back and forth wouldn't get you much.  It would be more efficient just to keep "waiting" over and over at the bunker.  The cost of the vending machine rewards are detailed here: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Sierra_Madre_vending_machine

I really don't see this as a problem.  If time passes, so what?  That is the game, as she is played.  The player is earning money on his/her significant time investment in beating Dead Money and collecting all those holotapes for the vending machine.

Zatsuya wrote:

further if individuals can move freely, what is happening in each area over the vast swaths of time the courier/lone wander is moving about.

Las Vegas to DC is 2400-2500 miles depending on route.  There really aren't "vast swaths of time" going by during transport.  Monsters and loot will respawn, that's about it.

Teleport: instant

Vertibird: less than a day assuming no long stops.  You can fly from Vegas to DC in six to seven hours with one layover (Orbitz.com).

Train: less than a day assuming no long stops.  You can take a train from Vegas to DC in 17-23 hours depending on the route (Amtrak.com).

Car or vehicle: two days to two months depending on speed.  You can take a bus from Vegas to DC in about 2.5 days (Greyhound.com).  You can drive a car from Vegas to DC in about the same (personal experience).  Google maps says 39 hours, but that's nonstop.  Assuming that's at 70 mph, and you factor in 12 hours a day driving, then (39 * 8) = 312 hours = 13 days at a (70/4)=17.5 MPH average speed driving 12 hours a day.  Even at a 4.3 MPH average speed (driving a tank or snowcat or something lol) driving 12 hours per day, it would be 52 days to drive it.

Walking: 125 to 250 days.  The Oregon Trail was about 2000 miles, and travelers averaged about 15 miles per day, most of it walking alongside the wagons.  So walking from DC to Vegas would be 2500/15 = 166 days.  Even at 10 miles per day, it would be 2500/10 = 250 days.  Since that Oregon Trail number includes going across the Rockies, it may be artificially low - you don't have to cross the Rocky Mountains to get from Vegas to DC. I have personally covered 20 miles in one day while hiking in rough terrain carrying gear.  Assuming you had power armor to help with the load, it is reasonable to assume that 20 miles a day would be possible = 125 days to make the journey.

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There have been several

There have been several 'brilliant plans' put forth in the last decade or so for major rail systems in the US. Many of them involve not entirely far fetched ideas for underground high speed rail.

Such a system could, if located reasonably deep, survive a nuclear bombardment relatively intact. That could be the justification for the train. (Several of the more ambitious proposed systems I've read about involve tunnels 1 or more miles underground, only having surfacing branches for heading to cities, and being designed for trains moving near or above the sound barrier)

My preferred method that would be Lore Friendly would be either a caravan ride (Hey you wants to guard our caravan for the trip west/back east?) You could even give a small reward and treat it as 'no time passed' for all the stuff that ticks along in game, or perhaps a functional vehicle (I'm thinking a motorcycle is about the only thing that would pass for that, in a lot of places the terrain/roads would be impassable to cars).

An 'after finish' subquest could be used in OWB to enable the telethingie to allow you to set a list of destinations; add a few in FNV, and a few in the DC area. Maybe NV<->DC transporting only works after finishing OWB, Mothership Zeta, and doing a subquest which establishes a relay system on the Mothership.

I came here to lurk and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of gum.

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New Vegas and Fallout occur

New Vegas and Fallout occur within a feasible distance, and brevity from eachother. Current method of transportation is quick and reasonable. Times make sense. It isn't overlong or overshort. Nothing's truly going to stop you from cheating with Dead Money anyway. Or the console. Yay! Money!

I think the train is lore-friendly, even if it ran entirely above ground, which being a metro, it doesn't. It could run both ways honestly. If there are robots, they've got 200 years to fix the rails. (Again, I really like the train method. It fits the 50s scheme, the common form of getting to Vegas in the 1950s, and makes the metro lines more interesting in DC. Besides, going by train was probably my favorite part of Broken Steel. That and messing with the Robot maintenance.)

I did voice the idea of using a teleporter. However, I really caution the use of it. Used as the main method, it would limit roleplay. It would also make the two sides of the map too accessible. There should be some divide between game. (Some people above really want that divide.) Besides, there's some distance between them. If you make it a method, keep the exisiting teleporter, which is a reward from OWB. Don't give it earlier. More critically, don't add one to your inventory the start of the game.

I dislike caravans, because they have the same issues as walking. I understand why you would want them, but they are not very implementable. Or if they are, you'll need to be willing to settle for the Pitt's magic cart transfer. A fade to black. Possibly some dialog with one of the living caravaners. (Now you got more reason to pray Crow doesn't die. Be nice, white radscopions...) Anyways, you couldn't do anything inbetween. We really shouldn't ask for them. You're not just playing with the GECK --- you'd need to add substantial amounts of content. Even the caravan guys would require voice-overs.

Also, I would refrain from connecting the plots with travel. Some people don't want the Lone Wanderer to be the Courier. Some people like myself, definitely do. I think that all of us like to imagine the connective pieces.  But I want a working mod that I can use. The modder's task here is already very great. I would like to make the modder's lives easier, and compromise. We shouldn't write fanfiction for the existing game. (Even my terrible ideas, mind you...) Not for the main mod. We should consider what's done, and what can be easily implemented well. It isn't like it's really the bare minimum. I'm seeing a LOT of work.

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I was a writer that was

I was a writer that was recruited by kuro before the mod was unfortunately shut down on the nexus.  He had a plan of a bit of a addon that had several questlines incorporating several mods like dog city, boulder city, and alton il.  He also had made up his own faction called bad company, This also had a quest line. After those quests were dealt with then you would find the devide and then the events of that area would happen. (there has to be a minor rewrite as the evnets of the devide happen while the LW is still in the vault. Either push the date of NV forward or the events of fallout 3 back some. or just ignore it.) The mod  It also would include a development of the CW during the 4 years you traveled to in the west. Depending on some small decisions the CW would have a loose government form ( a hint to the possible future of the CW that mirrors the NCR in the west but backed by a liberal Brotherhood of steel chapter).  

We also had the idea of playing after the NV ending but that was far off (only two endings were really viable to continue. IT was NCR or Yes man as they required the least amount of editing.), This would have a quest line of visiting California. 

 

As for Zeta there is a mod on the Fallout 3 nexus that gives you a faction (the Terran Starship Command) that controls Zeta and has a branching story that you build a under water city out of a alien base.  Then you are attacked by a chapter of the BOS, which leads you to recruiting the RCSN (Reborn coalition of Soviet Nations), which is a post war Russian faction which then gives you Russians power armor.  The mod is still being developed but the main modder is busy but has not abandoned the project.  This mod has dozens of addons as well,  you turn the lincoln memorial into a embasy, it has TSC custom armor, ranging from combat armor to power armor, a secret research base that gives you a alien follower as well as a display model of a cobera tank.  Then their are some Clothing addons that add a verity of clothing for this faction.  The latest ones give you a space station as well which I have not checked out.  THeir mods in plan that expand to the pitt and point lookout as well.  This mod is called Mothership Zeta Crew and would be awesome way to give you to use a zeta teleport which would give a story reason for it as well.  Even mroe their is a New VEgas addon of that puts a TSC embassy on the strip. 

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I would imagine everyone

I would imagine everyone going in to a mod like this either has their own story charted out in their head, or they just want to shoot things and become angry when NPCs have the audacity to actually try speaking with them. So any kind of story modding I think possibly falls to the way side of just making it so the mods don't make every single bug in both games a 100% guarantee like the old version does.

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few points about

few points about compatibility:

1)Untouched working underground railroad across the USA? Vertibird will be more realistic.

2)Until getting to Mojave we should have some prequest, like obtaining platinum chip and note to deliver it, Viktor can give it to player at DC, but you'll need some trick with his voiced dialogs not to spoil atmosphere.

3)Also package Lonesome Road was delivered, don't know if we can ignore it, cause after vault break we haven't memory 'white spots'.

Art holds unity that history does not.

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It's a gap of at least 2

It's a gap of at least 2 years between FO3 and NV. The who what when where and why of the lone wanderer aren't that overly important. All that really  needs to be said would already be implied. The Wanderer went West, found work and got shot for his troubles. It's also already implied that it's mostly only the short term memory that the courier lost. He never was from the Mojave in the first place, and they never specify otherwise. He could be from Vault City, NCR Proper, or the Capital Wasteland.

About the only thing the Courier COULDN'T be is an Escaped android from the commonwealth. Because I think Doc Mitchel would have noticed if you had an iPad for a brain.

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Vertibirds would be as

Vertibirds would be as realistic as underground trains, since Vertibirds are pretty damn rare. In fact, IIRC, only the Enclave and the BoS- assuming the Chosen One grabbing the Vertibird blueprints and giving 'em to the BoS is cannon- are the only ones with them. There's a ton of train wagons in Nevada alone, and the NCR DOES use a train (even if it's for a short distance). Not only that, but there's a shitton of tracks in Nevada as well, and it's not totally unfeasible to think they used these unused tracks to build/repair the underground traintracks that lead to DC. Plus, we gotta remember that FO is in a different, alternate timeline. It's retrofuturism, I'd like to think there were more than a few subways that lead to DC that the NCR or anyone else can fix for access.

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Some of the ideas Kuro had

Some of the ideas Kuro had about mixing in stuff from Dogtown Denver, Beyond Boulder Dome and Alton, IL seemed neat.

It would probably be hard to get all the rights to use them though, so maybe it would be possible to do that with an optional mod that uses them all as masters?

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President of NCR Aaron

President of NCR Aaron Kimball uses his own vertibird

Art holds unity that history does not.

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Might as well give my

Might as well give my suggestion, why not have the storyline the same for the DC mod until they go to NV and then after that they have to use a Simulation machine to rember what happen in the next? it would mean that most things in the NV wastelands are unaffected as the character had no idea how they were done till he used the machine. The stuff he collects from DC in the simulation could be stored in a hidden vault until he completes the main quest and then lets the player move back and forth from NV to DC.

another option would to make the player have a companion that is either the wanderer if the player starts in NV or a companion of the courier if the player starts in DC. that way the player will be able to get the same quest as the companion would be the main character of the story, your just there for the ride.

R Blaik

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A random idea I actually had

A random idea I actually had long ago when I first heard of RFCW.

Why not combine some of these ideas? A transcontinental underground rail line. The trains themselves are broken down but the tunnel itself is fairly clear, just exits collapsed. Entrances/exits were opened up at each end to connect Vegas and DC, with expansion-ready exits along the tunnel to provide plugin access to DLC and mods. All that would actually need to be made is a really long tunnel level. Link it to the metros in DC, have it surface somewhere on the eastern edge of NV (There are several closed tunnel entrances along eastern NV that could be used for this purpose).

Alternately, why not make use of Big MT? It was a government research facility, and they have access to transporter tech with the Transportalponder. Why not link that up to some government office in DC?

And as a third option, with Wild Wasteland theres a crashed alien ship outside of Vegas identical to the one that links to Zeta. Similar ship, similar transporter link? After completing Zeta, when Tercorien tells you about the transponder that was dropped where the ship used to be, he could mention that sensors also indicate a second transponder out west.

And I also really love the TSC mod, it is also a good option for connecting the wastelands.

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I guess this thread is a bit

I guess this thread is a bit old, but I thought I'd chime in with what I implemented in RFCW and the beta of TTW.

I concur with those who like the idea of the LW being recruited to join the Mojave Express. I also took into account that the Wasteland Survival Guide had to be written before getting the quest. While I completely agree that once the LW sets in motion the events at the Purifier after rescuing Dad, it didn't make much sense to allow the LW to travel across the country to become a mailman. Of course, it also doesn't make much sense to me either that he would stop and help slaves in Pittsburgh, pay the Outcasts a visit and do a VR sim, or take a vacation to Point Lookout for mutant fruit, and the game doesn't block those off, so I just sorta didn't implement any sort of "block" to prevent my quest from being available at various stages of the main quest.

What I did was spawn 3 NPCs at the gate of Megaton that would appear at the conclusion of the Wasteland Survival Guide quest. 2 of the NPCs were just guards for a member of the Mojave Express who have made the perilous journey eastward after accepting a contract from a cowboy faced robot to retrieve a platinum poker that was mistakenly delivered to the RobCo factory in the DC area. The LW then has the option to go to the RobCo factory and find the chip. Upon finding it, the LW exits the building and gets an invitation to travel with them back west, forget the troubles of the highly irradiated and dangerous Capital Wasteland, and work as a courier for the Mojave Express.

When the LW accepts the offer, the Mojave Express rep tells him that it's going to be a long journey, but you'll be burstin' with caps when we get there. From there, I just faded to white and showed the "Three Years Later" bik, and from there, I just started the intro quest at Doc Mitchells, complete with NV intro bik and all. I disabled the Vigor Tester, because it seemed pointless to reallocate SPECIAL points. I went ahead and had the LW/Courier go through the psyche tests, I figured it might be neat to be able to re-select tag skills and traits... especially if you are really RPing, you might want to give your guy some different traits since he's been shot in the head.

From there, you just play the NV side to your hearts content, and when you're ready to venture back east, head over with your preferred method of travel. I confess, I was skeptical of the train method (and still am from a lore perspective,) but the work that has been done on the train is professional quality, comprehensive, and when you use it, it doesn't feel like breaking lore at all. So yeah, I say keep it in. If it remains a problem for some, might I suggest you make it a plug in like the bobblehead perk plug in? 

I would also add that I love your ideas for the updated Vertibird travel method. It did seem a shame to not use those videos that the author of the original mod made, and the concept of flying cross-country in a Vertibird does seem the most lore friendly of all.

 

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I wish someone made a mod for

I wish someone made a mod for TTW that essentially turned the Capital Wasteland as is after the end of the FO3 main quest. I hate the FO3 Main Quest, and I don't even plan on starting it, so having the option of going to the CW without magically going back in time would be fun. Heck, I'd volunteer to work on such a mod.

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Well then get started, nobody

Well then get started, nobody is stopping you. It shouldn't even be too hard to just set it up so that the main quest and whatever sidequests you want, are already disabled.

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ElvenScoundrel, I agree. It

ElvenScoundrel, I agree. It would be good, 'cause Courier and Lone Wanderer are two different pesons, and it is weird, if one does the work of another.

But it would be a huge work.

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I have to say I like the

I have to say I like the ideas that have been put out on the LW being recruited by the Mojave Express and the train being used as the first way to get to NV, even though holes can be poked through the story line. In my opinion the Courier and the LW should be the same person really or why even use TTW just fire up each game separately it's the Tale of Two Wastelands not the Tale of Two People.

 

As for how the time span could be covered I like what Jax was talking about, going along and fixing the tracks as you move along. I also think another way of making it much more simple is having it pop up as a quest maybe called "living life", "My how time does fly" something like that. Once activated it fades you get a story about two years of becoming restless in the CW (to bad we couldn't afford Ron Pearlmen) you wake up in your bed step outside and are approached by a ME recruiter. He knows of your deeds and believes your the guy his operation is looking for, then he gives you the back story on how the train has been worked on by the collective Courier and Caravan companies, he gives you your ticket and then you head out. Just my 2 caps 

 

wolf   

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Trains would work pretty well

Trains would work pretty well IMHO.  As was previously stated, there were 200 years for robots to fix the tracks, and if there was something they couldn't fix, there are plenty of other lines to go around it.  Incidentally, I checked a 1963 Official Guide of the Railways, travel time from Vegas to DC via St Louis would be about 60 hours without a stopover.  That seems like a reasonable travel time in order not to unbalance anything time-based, could always round up to 3 days to account for rough spots or other issues...

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@Wowboy: that sounds awesome

@Wowboy: that sounds awesome - basically the ideal way I would personally prefer to play TTW. Is what you did available as a mod, or something like that?

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