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dandys
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CROSS-CONTENT DISCUSSION: Harvesting

New Vegas added Elder Scrolls-style harvesting of resources like plants etc. to the game that I really like.

An idea I had was to make Fallout 3 have some of that. Obviously, we can't add stuff like broc flowers agave xander root whatever to the Capital Wasteland, but there are some things we could do. I have all the resources to make the following work:

Ant/Mirelurk/Deathclaw egg piles turned into harvestable things rather than containers that visibly have the eggs disappear when you harvest them

turning static Fallout 3 cave fungus into pickable cave fungus like in new vegas and new vegas DLC

also there's a mod I didn't make but I saw called some food mod, it's free to use and it adds Mutfruit and Crunchy Mutfruit pickable plants like in NV, which we could distribute in like Oasis or something although it might be weird

Any of those sound interesting?

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JaxFirehart
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I actually like all of them.

I actually like all of them. I don't have much experience with harvestables, but I see no problem doing that. Planting new mutfruits and such sounds like a real undertaking in DC though.

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Agree, I like this idea! some

Agree, I like this idea! some of the farms or, small towns could have them they don't have to be everywhere just some in places you would expect to see them and, a few in random locations. I would be willing to take this on if people thought it was too much. 

dandys
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yeah chuck if you wouldn't

yeah chuck if you wouldn't mind you can be the one to do the job since you have the level design background

l'll send you the resources

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I'm OK with this. Heck, it'd

I'm OK with this. Heck, it'd be nice if the team added some ACTUAL vegetation, and made DC feel a bit more logical, but I fear that's not part of TTW's vision.

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ChuckSteel has actually

ChuckSteel has actually started doing this. He and I debated a bit and decided it was appropriate.

darthbdaman
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Definitely do this. The games

Definitely do this. The games should match up seamlessly, which means adding new features where appropriate.

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This is great idea honestly.

This is great idea honestly.

JimmyFraska
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chucksteel wrote:

chucksteel wrote:

Agree, I like this idea! some of the farms or, small towns could have them they don't have to be everywhere just some in places you would expect to see them and, a few in random locations. I would be willing to take this on if people thought it was too much. 

I absolutely advocate this idea. The design of towns in New Vegas got across better how the wastelanders actually survived there, i.e. what kind of ecosystem the town had. We should see a similar effect in Fallout 3, albeit, some places in 3 shouldn't be so self sustainable (like Big Town). 

JimmyFraska
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JimmyFraska wrote:

JimmyFraska wrote:

chucksteel wrote:

Agree, I like this idea! some of the farms or, small towns could have them they don't have to be everywhere just some in places you would expect to see them and, a few in random locations. I would be willing to take this on if people thought it was too much. 

I absolutely advocate this idea. The design of towns in New Vegas got across better how the wastelanders actually survived there, i.e. what kind of ecosystem the town had. We should see a similar effect in Fallout 3, albeit, some places in 3 shouldn't be so self sustainable. (Like Big Town. They should look like they're dying.)

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Some patches of NV maize

Some patches of NV maize around Megaton, Agatha's Hut, Arefu, Girdershade, Tenpenny and that Trading Hub settlement where the caravans come from wouldn't be out of place.

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While I love this idea, a lot

While I love this idea, a lot of FNV's harvestable plant life is native to the Mojave area in real life. Should we consider adding non-native plant life to DC, or should we make new stuff that fits in the DC area, like the cherry trees DC is famous for?

/befo

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I just came from the Real

I just came from the Real Time Settler forum, make sure there's New Vegas 'Trees' Somewhere so that we can set up in the CW! The ones from Jamestown (Or whatever it is) could be somewhere, I hope.

-Conso

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Aconagent1 wrote:

Aconagent1 wrote:

I just came from the Real Time Settler forum, make sure there's New Vegas 'Trees' Somewhere so that we can set up in the CW! The ones from Jamestown (Or whatever it is) could be somewhere, I hope.

Is it just me or you posted this in the wrong place? Wasn't this post supposed to be in the RTS questions one?

chucksteel
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I am currently working on

I am currently working on pickables for the DC wasteland. We will not be adding the plants that are not native to the region so no cactus, no, Buffalo ground seed and, so on. 

So far we have already added the Cave fungus, I am currently adding Maze and, we have custom models for both types of mutfriut plants. 

Never played Real time Settler so I have no clue what you need the trees for. I guess some could be added but, they would only be in and around Oasis. Don't know though. 

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I think it has something to

I think it has something to do with how you pick where to settle, Chuck. Never used it either so I'm not sure. IMO it should be it's own mod adding NV RTS locations to TTW.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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That sound like a case for

That sound like a case for someone to make a RTS TTW compatibility patch that allows the use of the dead trees around DC and, out of the scope of TTW. 

One last thing about the Pick-able plants, Maize and, Muit Fruit, I started with the idea to have small farm in and around the major settlements but, it felt really odd and, the DC wasteland is not as flat as the Mojave wasteland. (Plus where do you put them for places like Rivet City and Arifu?) 

I've now changed my plan and, am placing the randomly around the wasteland as if they were growing wild and, the wastelanders have go go out and forage for food. DC Wasteland is much harsher and, less civilized so this makes scene to me. Some of the abandoned farms will have a lot of Maize plants growing in the somewhat empty fields. Muit Fruit I'm just dropping anywhere I feel. (Sometimes I just open up the Wasteland worldspace in the cell view window and, click a cell find a good place to drop a few and, move on.) 

It's taking a lot of time but, in the end I hope it feel right and, not forced in any way. 

EDIT: Also if anyone has suggestions for plant that they think should make it to DC Fell Free to let me know with an explanation of why. I would like more But, Most of the NV Plants are Native to the Mojave Wasteland and, not DC. 

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I think just growing in the

I think just growing in the wild will probably be the way to go. Sounds like you've got a handle on it, keep it up bro.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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I feel like Rivet City and

I feel like Rivet City and Megaton should definitely have farms of their own. Settlements of those size could not survive on foraging alone, especially in the Wasteland.

I'm very glad this is being addressed. Yesterday I was thinking about how stupid it was that almost the entire populous of the Capitol Wasteland is surviving on scavenged pre-war food. It makes no sense.

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I feel like Rivet City and

Double post

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Where would you put them? I

Where would you put them? I can see a makeshift farm in planters on the flight deck of Rivet City but, Megaton? There is no flat land around it and, no good location to place one. If you have a suggestion I'm all ears. 

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@chucksteel could Rivet City

@chucksteel could Rivet City caravan crops to Megaton?

I'm not alright, I'm an equal amount of left.

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I agree on Rivet city growing

I agree on Rivet city growing some food, why would the council let Dr Li spend all that time and money trying to grow food if they weren't getting anything off it. I'd say stick some planters on the deck (a set up sort've like in westside), thats the most logical place for it IMO.

 

Megaton, maybe just make it a rancher town, I'm probably going a bit beyond the scope of what you were thinking of doing here; but maybe convert Springvale into an effective extension of Megaton, not walled off or anything, but for all intensive purposes just say the ranchers live in some of the houses in Springvale.

It'd have to be a rancher town really, even if they're just 'free roaming' cattle... A few spawn points to the side of one of the gates might suffice tbh. Just my two cents anyway, make of it what you will.

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Just how flat of a space do

Just how flat of a space do are you looking for? Next to Megaton, there is that wonderful little "mini-valley"/pocket of space that is diagonally between Megaton and Vault 101, bordered by the back of the ruined houses at the south edge of Springvale up towards where the merchants hang out outside of Megaton and the rocky "cliff" at the edge of the road that borders the front of Vault 101.

Maybe there are rocks there, but couldn't they be taken out and the land leveled a bit? Farmers would do that anyway...with all the explosives in the wasteland, even bigger rocks wouldn't be difficult to take care of, like clearing stumps of trees.

There's even the water tower there, which would make sense in that it would be used for the irrigation of the plants once it was put back into working condition. The area is close to Megaton and not facing the areas with higher Raider concentrations (i.e. further north, east, and south). Even could be covered by Megaton's front-gate sniper (can't remember his name...).

Plants on top of all the space in Rivet City makes all the sense in the world.

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I really like the idea of

I really like the idea of harvestable native plants placed throughout the CW, but the idea of making what I'm guessing would be fairly large edits to include farms in or around the majority of settlements just seems like it would cause more problems than it solved. I like the idea others have mentioned about a large scale farming operation on the Rivet City flight decks with caravans taking the food to the various settlements. I added a similar idea to my FNV mod with Camp Golf supposedly providing food for the NCR throughout the Mojave.

Also, to clarify the request for "trees", RTS for NV requires 50 trees within a certain radius to create a lumber camp, so that is what he was asking for. Obviously RTS functionality shouldn't be a concern for the TTW team though. :)

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Walrus, 

Walrus, 

I've killed the idea of proper farms, It sounded good at first but, when I went to implement it it just felt forced and, wrong. I've moved on to a subsistence based system with foraging. there are already hunters in FO3 (Be it there likely hunting people. :) ) 

It's just going to take me a long time to place plants randomly in believable places and, ways through out the DC Wasteland. 

I'm not even going to add the farm to the flight deck of rivet city even though I think it is a good idea. If someone wants to mod it there more then welcome too!  

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AFAIK, you don't really need

AFAIK, you don't really need flat terrain to grow crops, and there's enough empty space around Megaton to grow crops. OR, you can make a new interior cell that's essentially a greenhouse or hydroponics bay, which also makes some modicum of sense, considering Megaton has working pipes. Same with Rivet City; it has enough space for them to build a greenhouse or hydroponics bay.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics This is probably Megaton and Rivet City's best chance of growing crops, since fertile soil is not AS needed when doing hydroponic farming. Canterbury Commons should DEFINITELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT have a rather large farm. IN FACT, IIRC, there's a big plot of farmland just before you get to Canterbury Commons, where a Yao Guai usually spawns that could be used as a massive farming field, which makes sense for the Commons to have, seeing as it's the trading hub of D.C. Add one of those ramshackled barns and a bunch of maize and mutfruit, and it makes logical sense to imagine that Canterbury Commons sells their crops to Megaton and Rivet City.

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I know you don't need flat

I know you don't need flat land to grow crops, my biggest issue is game aesthetics. Farms do make scene from a realism standpoint but they really just don't work when added, they feel forced and out of place. This is why I choose to go with a subsistence based foraging system. Your more then welcome to mod in farms to TTW but, I'm not going to add them by force just for Realism sake.  

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@Chuck

@Chuck

Was the plan to implement these changes into the main file of TTW then? Cause if so I'm inclined to agree with you, while there should be the occasional harvestable plant to be found around DC; I'm not up for the idea of the settlements being involved in farming becoming part of the main game.

To be fair I'll probably end up using a mod that does add more of a farming culture to the various settlements (I'll possibly make my own, suited to what I want it to look like) but not to have it forced on you would be a severe bonus.

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Yes when I finish adding the

Yes when I finish adding the plants the update would be integrated into TTW.esm. I do agree with your post, not having something forced on the individual player is for the best. I already decided to not include farms. I'm only adding random plants. 

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The suggestions for Rivet

The suggestions for Rivet City have been very good. As for Megaton, I saw a mod not too long ago that added a pen with more brahmin. Even if you weren't to add crops, a pen with two or three extra cattle in it would get the idea across well enough.

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Chucksteel, you asked for

Chucksteel, you asked for recommendations on plants that are in FNV that could make it over to DC. Here are a few.

Pinto Bean Pods: I grow these in North Carolina so I see no reason you couldn't grow them in DC. 

Coyote Tobacco: Again, we have grown tobacco in NC, and it was a staple Virginia crop for a long time, so I see no reason to leave it out. 

Broc Flower and Xander Root: neither of these have a real world counterpart that I can think of (or find on Google or the FO wiki) so these two could be acceptable in DC. Neither have a real southwest feel like cacti, so I think it would be OK. It would also allow healing powder to be crafted in DC, early on when it would be useful. The Xander Root in particular would work, since the wiki mentions it is turnip-like, and turnips are a common garden vegetable. 

Fresh apples, carrots, pears and potatoes could all be found in DC, though I realize these aren't harvested (although there is an mod that adds a harvestable apple tree to the Megaton house, so I imagine it would be possible to do apple trees).

Pinyon Nuts could be included, as pine trees are across the nation. Again, I realize this isn't normally a harvest item, but it would fit in DC, Oasis, Point Lookout, Jamestown, anywhere there are trees.

Although I am not a modder, I am pretty sure a tree or plant model could be made into an activatable item, like other modders have done with coffee urns and fire hydrants...if that is an option you want to consider. It may be more in the realm of an addon mod, however. If that is the case then the non-harvestable things I mentioned could at least go into the lists. /shrug


 

/befo

JaxFirehart
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I have no objection to any of

I have no objection to any of this. It all makes sense to me.

Coyote tobacco is not the same as east coast tobacco, coyote is more west, southwest. The model is similar though, coyote has that stalk in the middle which would need to be removed.

Thanks for your input, that's valuable information.

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Last I checked Rivet city

Last I checked Rivet city already had some kind of hydroponics going.

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They did.

They did.

And do you think Oasis would have some interesting harvestables?

I think it would.

And like, other stuff, I guess.

Computer Build

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I think Oasis is the one

I think Oasis is the one place where we could find a ton of harvestables.  ANY harvestable is fair game around there since the entire thing is produced out of an FEV mutation; the normal rules don't apply.  It could be the lone point where you could find normally NV-exclusive harvestables in the CW.

Outside of that I agree that Maize and Mutifruit are the likely candidates for harvestables in the CW.  The other harvest items could be sold by Crow, who has connections to Oasis in his background.

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Oh yeah, add to that Tobacco,

Oh yeah, add to that Tobacco, which is distinct-but-related to Coyote Tobacco.  DC is actually a good environment for Tobacco to grow in.

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What about jalepenos? I

What about jalepenos? I havent seen anyone mention them, peppers grow pretty much anywhere.

Call me Pat. Senterpat is too much to type.

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Greetings,

Greetings,

MrBtongue made an interesting video about the Fallout universe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwlt4FqmS0

Towards the end, he specifically compares the food situation between FO3 and FNV and raises some good points.

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A.Persyn wrote:

A.Persyn wrote:

Greetings,

MrBtongue made an interesting video about the Fallout universe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwlt4FqmS0

Towards the end, he specifically compares the food situation between FO3 and FNV and raises some good points.

I normally avoid these discussions here and have my fun where I defend FO3 against unfair accusations to the Bethesda forum. But this video is simply bogus and biased and I have to reply. Go with an open eye through New Vegas and think about how people really would live there (only one example: the Kings headquarter). It doesn't work.

RPG game settings are obstructions and not real live simulators. FO3 isn't so unlogical as a specific group of people want's you to make believe.

According to Geck there are more Brahmins in the CW then in the Mojave. Actually FO3 has a food chain and hunters if you pay attention to the random encounters (if you haste through the mainquest you will never see it). I could go on forever but one fighting ground is enough.

I feel sad for the people who wanted Fallout 3 to be Van Buren but this constant bitching (and often without any base) against Bethesdas Fallout 3 won't bring them a better game. Neither from Obsidian nor from Bethesda.

 

Ontopic:

I am working on a mesh for a harvestable cabbage for Fallout The Story. If a mod comes from this thread I am gladly give my permission.

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Offtopic alert:

Offtopic alert:

I just watched this video and I must say that even though it points out several things it also disregard others. For example it says what do Megaton people eat... Well Megaton (and pretty much of DC I guess) eat mostly meat, just go to the Brass Lantern and see their menu there are plenty of critters in the DC ruins to feed all the people, giant ants, molerats, radroaches, brahmin, mirelurks (there is even a place where we can get the Tenderizer unique weapon that is clearly a mirelurk meat processing place), of course all the pre-war food around, The Family survives on blood, Oasis people survive from (I imagine) all the green and healthy stuff coming from Harold, there are also birds (for example we can see them flying over Megaton) and we hear them in Oasis (even though we can't really get them and eat them ), Rivet City has some kind of Hydroponics going on (even though we don't see it), with Point Lookout comes the punga fruit, there are entire communities of cannibals in DC and we can encounter hunting parties in DC from time to time too, etc... Also the DC ruins wouldn't be as good for crops as the mojave since the terrain is less flat and the water is more radiated (we can't forget that Mr. House prevented most of the nukes from hitting New Vegas) that's the point in the main quest of FO3 getting good water so the Capital Wasteland can start healing (after all just look at all the trees from the DC ruins and look at trees from NV one are charred sticks the others are nice and green leafy ones).

Also he mentions what do people eat on NV and shows the NCR plantations, well NCR plantations are not for NV people, they are for NCR camps, even NCR people in Freeside get none of that food.

He also mentions why build Megaton around the bomb, they do explain that if he had taken the time to talk with some people in Megaton, it was built there because the crater offered great protection and was easy to defend and later easy to build walls around.

It is true that FO3 seems way less food-wise but that is because it's mainly a meat based diet while in NV it's mainly a crop based diet, we can see crops and will associate them with food, but we see enemies and will associate them with KILL KILL KILL instead and forget they are food. Also the DC settlements usually have a dinner where you can buy food and have a meal, the NV ones have none of those, only bars and saloon type of establishments, and DC also have a rotating caravan system that goes to all the big settlements while NV has random caravans we don't see much around.

Ok I stop now, I don't usually like to post this posts, and I am not saying I love FO3 and not NV, I love them both the same, they are different games and I love them for what they are I just have to point out some things that people sometimes forget.

Ontopic:

Nothing .

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Risewild wrote:

Risewild wrote:

DC also have a rotating caravan system that goes to all the big settlements while NV has random caravans we don't see much around.

This in and of itself is begging for a mod.

I agree with Rise and Sesom here. There's nothing wrong with either game... they just need TTW to make them the best little game they can be.

"In the world of entertainment, there are very few things as good..... as Fallout."

"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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I am using my powers of

I am using my powers of necromancy to revive this thread.


Simply put, a greater number of campfire-crafting recipes need to become available for the player in the Capital Wasteland. This means: 

  1. More plants need to be made available, not just those from NV which satisfy existing recipes, but
  2. new recipes need to be provided which make better use of existing consumables and miscellaneous items that one can find in abundance in the Capital Wasteland.

Antivenom, for instance is craftable from only nightstalker blood and radscorpion poison glands. While you can't find nightstalkers in DC, you can find centaurs, and their blood could be used as substitute or in addition to nightstalker blood which would satisfy some existing recipes.

  • Chuck, what is the current status of any of the features or implementation of harvestable plants discussed? So far, I think all we have is the unique TTW fungus. Some additional recipes have been implemented in 2.2a, which is most welcome. Other threads which pertain to this topic are here, and here

In addition to seeing maize, mutfruit, and an east-coast variety of tobacco, I believe it will also be necessary for animals unique to DC like the Yao Guai to drop items which can be used in new campfire recipes. Understanding that a guiding principle should be to alter vanilla content as little as possible, it may also be advantageous for animals which one finds in greater number in DC than NV to provide additional components for campfire crafting. Molerats, for instance could provide something more than just their meat to use in recipes. DLC content from Point Lookout and others provides even more possibilities for new campfire crafting recipes. Trogg phlegm, anyone?

This is a mod I would like to work on, and there are some exciting possible recipes I have in mind like Yao Guai-backed leather armor which makes use of (new) tanned Yao Guai hide; powdered Yao Guai claws for mixing new poisons; new DC-specific poisons. 

Thoughts?

JaxFirehart
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Mods are always welcome. I

Mods are always welcome. I have been trying to throw in interesting recipes whenever they occur to me, but I agree a lot if left to be desired. Feel free to throw out anything and I'll riff off of them and incorporate whats good. I like the Yao Guai armor. I'm hesitant because those changes would echo through to honest hearts, but I really like the idea, same with claws. I would like a see a mechanism where killing a yao guai yields a yao guai paw and then at the workbench you can convert that to a Yao Guai Gauntlet or extract the claws to use for recipes. Maybe yao guai teeth too, let the player craft a necklace or something out of them.

Of course I have no modeling or texture skills so most of this is beyond my ability.

I did make Yao Guai Medallions which are pretty bad ass but they are made from the glowing mushrooms and so is highly radioactive, its an interesting choice.

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I like the new food items we

I like the new food items we have. Being from Maryland, eating more mutated crab is good :)

I'll lend my skills creating new models, like the Yao Guai pelt. I don't think very many unique items will need to be provided and fewer is better in this case. It's not often that you see the world-model of these things anyway and many of them are shared.

A priority should be adding at least a few poison recipes which make use of non NV-specific components. Every one of the available poison recipes calls for either Cazadore or Bark scorpion poison. My suggestion would be to add an industrial/chemical/radiological poison which isn't made from animal products. Or if one is, make it use something from an animal that you can find only or predominantly in DC, namely the Yao Guai. 

So, powdered Yao Guai claws?

It's unfortunate that this seems to be the only creature unique to the Capital Wasteland (except for the Mirelurk?). Which is why it may be worth considering modifying a few creatures (like the mole rat or the centaur) to drop blood or other things which could be used in new poison recipes.

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@ JaxFirehart & TrickyVein

@ JaxFirehart & TrickyVein

I'm currently finishing up a mod for TTW called, "Butcher the Wastelands." It's intended to offer a replacement for the death item/loot system with a butchering system. The mod requires the player to use a bladed weapon to carve up dead NPC/creatures in order to get the body related loot. I've added many new items and corresponding recipes to make those new items useful.

The number of cuts it takes to extract items is determined by Melee skill (higher skill = fewer cuts) and the number of items that can be extracted is determined by Survival skill (higher skill = more stuff). Every corpse can produce an assortment of related items such as hide or carapace, horns, meat, organs, eyes, brain, hooves/claws, etc. (I haven't made the Yao Guai paw yet, but it's on the list.) It also gives an XP reward for every limb dismembered.

The new recipes produce items that increase: resistance (fire/poison/radiation), skills, abilities and misc items. I still have some modeling and texturing to do, as well as tweaking the script, but it's nearly finished. Of course, being able to butcher everything, combined with the quantity of creatures, produces a lot of food/stuff which really changes the game quite a bit. To balance things out a bit, none of the new food items restore HP, but some items can be crafted into other items that do restore it.

Have a nice day!

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Sounds like a good add-on mod

Sounds like a good add-on mod :)

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Well I have in my spare time

Well I have in my spare time thinking of recipes, I focused mainly on food ones for the moment but I did made a few for the DC side which I posted somewhere on the forum, I used Nukalurk meat, alien meat, strange meat, etc... I wanted to make a MZ only special recipe but since it only has two exclusive ingredients I couldn't work out how to do it, even considered using alien epoxy or biogel as an ingredient .

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Very true, alien based

Very true, alien based recipes would be awesome.

As for the Yao Guai, don't forget that it is in Honest Hearts as well, so even it is not unique to DC. The ONLY uniques (that I can think of at the moment) are SM Behemoths and Mirelurks.

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Combine the DLC unique items

Combine the DLC unique items with more conventional items like different alcohols or even chemicals like turpentine, abraxo cleaner and laundry detergent (at least for the stuff from MZ)? There's more than enough stuff already to yield all kinds of combinations.

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TrickyVein wrote:

TrickyVein wrote:

Combine the DLC unique items with more conventional items like different alcohols or even chemicals like turpentine, abraxo cleaner and laundry detergent (at least for the stuff from MZ)? There's more than enough stuff already to yield all kinds of combinations.

True, but my objective was to have a recipe that the player could rely while doing the MZ DLC and while there is plenty of alien food, there isn't plenty of mundane stuffs which makes me have trouble thinking of a recipe that one can rely on during the MZ .

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