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RoyBatty
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Big Announcement on Twitter for players

https://twitter.com/bethesdastudios/status/697886212640665600

Bethesda tweeted that they will be adding Food, Drink, Sleep, Diseases, and more to Survival mode.

This may renew interest in the game for many, including me.

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Thanks Roy!  I heard this on

Thanks Roy!  I heard this on the Rumor mill but it wasn't official so I said nothing about it.

Well, I am glad they are trying make Fallout 4 Fallout again but I am not going to call Todd Howard a deity or a Lord because this shisnet should have been in there on the initial release ... 

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

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Raises the question, will

Raises the question, will this be in form of a patch or will be in a DLC that people have to pay money to get?

I am sure it will be a patch but with Bethesda we never know, they seem to always choose the worst options.

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Risewild, you know that

Risewild, you know that answer to that.  Come on, Zenimaxx/Bethesda are the Microsoft of the gaming world.  My bet is it will be in a DLC.  And if not, I will be happily shocked!

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

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KeltecRFB wrote:

KeltecRFB wrote:

 

Risewild, you know that answer to that.  Come on, Zenimaxx/Bethesda are the Microsoft of the gaming world.  My bet is it will be in a DLC.  And if not, I will be happily shocked!

That is my bet too. They aren't exactly Paradox when it comes to charging for tiny additions to their games, but I wouldn't be surprised if they start heading that way. What's really sad is they are only adding this stuff now. They should have noticed from the get-go that Survival mode was a freakin joke in it's current iteration and done something to fix it before they released the game.

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I don't think it will be DLC,

I don't think it will be DLC, if it is that would be super suck and royal dick move.

Generally when features like this are added, they do it in the base game as that kind of thing is hard coded actor values.

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Lyndi wrote:

Lyndi wrote:

 What's really sad is they are only adding this stuff now. They should have noticed from the get-go that Survival mode was a freakin joke in it's current iteration and done something to fix it before they released the game.

Well, survival mode suffers because as a whole the game is rather poorly balanced, especially in regards to sources of chems and stimpacks. In the beginning of the game, before the player accumulates such masses of things survival mode does present a challenge. It was the most fun I've gotten out of any of Bethesda's vanilla difficulty settings.

Anyway, with needs thrown into the mix, I'm hoping that the chem and food workbenches (crafting stations) feel much more relevant or useful at all to begin with.

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Lyndi wrote:

Lyndi wrote:

 What's really sad is they are only adding this stuff now. They should have noticed from the get-go that Survival mode was a freakin joke in it's current iteration and done something to fix it before they released the game.

People at the NMA forums always threw a theory around that FO4 was released unfinished, now what if the game was actually released unfinished and Bethesda is now making some features and stuff that were supposed to be in the finished product and this needs and diseases is one of those unfinished things?

Conspiracy theory intensifies .

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I hope it is true and that it

I hope it is true and that it is "finished" for free without those features being added to a DLC.

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

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^ not really a conspiracy at
^ not really a conspiracy at all Rise, that's just how games, and most projects, end up. Things always take longer than planned, but you can't push a game release back forever. So eventually the deadline is made (almost always a month or two before Christmas) and they finish what they can and publish the game in it's current state. That said, the plan from the beginning may have been to make a feature DLC, or it may have been decided midway when they realized the feature wouldn't be done on time. Hard to say which was the case without being there...
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Yes, but they had 7 years and

Yes, but they had 7 years and there was no already release date or even anything but rumours about Fallout 4 in the public area, they could have kept the game in development for another year and no one would be the wiser and they could have released it with the features it was missing.

I don't think they were desperate for money so much that they had to push the release of the game with whole features still missing like a needs and diseases system. I could understand if they had already announced the release date for the game and had to keep it way before the game was finished, but they just came out of nowhere with the release date a few months before.

I can see that it might not be Bethesda's fault, Zenimax bosses over them, so maybe it was Zenimax who pushed them to release the game last year instead of waiting another year or so, and that we also will never know.

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Read the article about how

Read the article about how LucasArts died, it pretty much explains that investors and board members have no idea how games are made, and they don't understand why things can be late.

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They had 7 years, but did

They had 7 years, but did they really? Were they really seriously working on FO4 all those years? Unlikely... More likely most of the people involved were working on other projects and they didn't staff or gear up for FO4 until much later. I would think it would be hard to keep a well funded staff together for that long especially in the competitive gaming market.

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Bethesda was only like 100

Bethesda was only like 100 people back then with funding coming from Zenimax and all the profit from Skyrim I guess. Bethesda is a relatively small AAA gaming company and only after Fallout 4 they opened an office in Canada and expand a bit.

So they don't cost as much to keep funded as most other AAA gaming companies that have 10 or more times that many people employed.

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I would not oppose it being a

I would not oppose it being a DLC, if it were a free DLC like the Skyrim Hi-res textures. I suspect that while the majority would love this change (myself included) many others would prefer the vanilla survival mode and want the option to retain it. 

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I dunno.  I'm still having a

I dunno.  I'm still having a lot of fun with it. I solved my stimpack abundance problem by playing on survival and by using Customize Legendary Spawn Rate mod at about x20 Legendary Spawn.

 

Even with the seemingly endless stream of stims and all that, when you come up to a refinery entirely populated by Legendary Supermutants and Legendary Mutant hounds...  You'll find yourself running and/or dead a lot of the time.  Even if you're wearing full T-60 or whatever.

 

The thought of adding "new" survival stuff like hunger, thirst, sleep, etc (ie re-introducing Hardcore mode from FNV) is just butter.  I honestly can't wait for that and the HOPEFULLY soon to be released GECK.

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deadboy wrote:

deadboy wrote:

...at about x20 Legendary Spawn.

Have you tried beginning a new game with 20x legendary spawns?

deadboy wrote:

 Even if you're wearing full T-60 or whatever.

The game is horribly balanced between new game and end game play, and upping the toughness of enemies to overcome your god armor, god perks and god weapons a fun or rewarding game does not make. 

It feels to me that the game was not built to handle players past level 50. Similarly, I don't think Fallout NV handled players past level 30 very well either, at least not in the Mojave wasteland.

I'm excited for hardcore needs again so that I can maybe enjoy another playthrough of the game with a new character. It's not something I would consider at all if I kept playing with my level 60 whatever toon, because the game has already devolved into a pretty meaningless shooter at that level.

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TrickyVein wrote:

TrickyVein wrote:

It feels to me that the game was not built to handle players past level 50. Similarly, I don't think Fallout NV handled players past level 30 very well either, at least not in the Mojave wasteland.

 

IIRC, Josh Sawyer basically said himself, that they only balanced the game for players up to level 30, which is why they made that the original level cap, and also why the mod he made removes the level cap increase from the DLC's.

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I'm almost positive the "7

I'm almost positive the "7 years" statement was including the time they spent building Skyrim. It is the same game engine, after all. How else could they make the claim that they started working on it right after Fallout 3?

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It is same engine, but for

It is same engine, but for the first time in the past 10 years it has significant improvements like x64, DirectX 11 and new facegen system. This is kind of similar to Morrowid -> Oblivion engine transition when they changed from DirectX 8 to 9 and also reworked facegen.

There are also some other neat features like dynamic LOD that depends on enable parent state on references, "revolutionary" breakthrough for Bethesda.

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They dropped the ball on the

They dropped the ball on the game.  The question is, will Todd Howard, Bethesda, and ZeniMaxx let Obsidian make the version they want in N'Awlins (More like Little Venice after the bomb(s)) or at least that is the last location they were throwing into the rumor mill?  And can they recover with DLCs or with Fallout 5, or do they want to recover?  Do they really care about all of the diehard fans?   

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They shifted focus from RPG

They shifted focus from RPG elements and mechanics to popular modern trends - streamlining gameplay like usage of dialogue wheel and Minecraft. You can never go wrong with Minecraft. This is not dropping a ball, just different direction of development that sucked resources from other parts of the game and left an empty shell of former Fallout RPGs.

Considering their latest DLC blog post that Fallout 4 is "our most successful title ever", that obviously worked for them. Do I blame them? Nope. They've done what they had to to make more money, any other AAA game studio with successful IP would have done exactly the same. You can blame the new generation of players and their requirements, game studios have no choice but to adapt. Old fags like me (and you) are not happy, but who cares. Not Bethesda for sure and those players spending hours and hours on settlements building and decoration.

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zilav wrote:

zilav wrote:

They shifted focus from RPG elements and mechanics to popular modern trends - streamlining gameplay like usage of dialogue wheel and Minecraft. You can never go wrong with Minecraft. This is not dropping a ball, just different direction of development that sucked resources from other parts of the game and left an empty shell of former Fallout RPGs.

It's more like Fallout fans where expecting to get onto the Vault Baseball team, and Bethesda decided to play Soccer instead. Sadly with this change in how the settlements where made, it left Diamond City as the only true "Fallout settlement" and everything else on the map is a alter at your leisure shell. I will say with the new DLC info that spot for the DLC in Maine better be HUGE map. At $24.99 for the story DLC alone, coming off 3's/NV's DLC's at $9.99 retail at launch that's setting the price bar really high. There better be content enough to warrant that price tag.

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zilav wrote:

zilav wrote:

 

They shifted focus from RPG elements and mechanics to popular modern trends - streamlining gameplay like usage of dialogue wheel and Minecraft. You can never go wrong with Minecraft. This is not dropping a ball, just different direction of development that sucked resources from other parts of the game and left an empty shell of former Fallout RPGs.

Considering their latest DLC blog post that Fallout 4 is "our most successful title ever", that obviously worked for them. Do I blame them? Nope. They've done what they had to to make more money, any other AAA game studio with successful IP would have done exactly the same. You can blame the new generation of players and their requirements, game studios have no choice but to adapt. Old fags like me (and you) are not happy, but who cares. Not Bethesda for sure and those players spending hours and hours on settlements building and decoration.

I don't blame them for that either, I understand how companies work and they always have the focus of getting the highest profits with each new product. What I blame them for is selling Fallout 4 as a RPG and to a lesser degree as a Fallout game, at least they could have called it Fallout Commonwealth The Shooter or something.

Selling it as a RPG and then saying stuff like "We at Bethesda love and grew up playing RPGs like the classic Fallout games, Ultima games, Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate games, etc." just feels like a punch in the face of consumers.

 

AnvilOfWar wrote:

 

It's more like Fallout fans where expecting to get onto the Vault Baseball team, and Bethesda decided to play Soccer instead. Sadly with this change in how the settlements where made, it left Diamond City as the only true "Fallout settlement" and everything else on the map is a alter at your leisure shell. I will say with the new DLC info that spot for the DLC in Maine better be HUGE map. At $24.99 for the story DLC alone, coming off 3's/NV's DLC's at $9.99 retail at launch that's setting the price bar really high. There better be content enough to warrant that price tag.

I don't know about HUGE, but Bethesda said that the Far Harbor DLC has the biggest landmass of all DLCs ever or something like that, let's hope they don't just have a lot of empty space.

 

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TrickyVein wrote:

TrickyVein wrote:

 

deadboy wrote:

...at about x20 Legendary Spawn.

 

Have you tried beginning a new game with 20x legendary spawns?

deadboy wrote:

 Even if you're wearing full T-60 or whatever.

 

The game is horribly balanced between new game and end game play, and upping the toughness of enemies to overcome your god armor, god perks and god weapons a fun or rewarding game does not make. 

It feels to me that the game was not built to handle players past level 50. Similarly, I don't think Fallout NV handled players past level 30 very well either, at least not in the Mojave wasteland.

I'm excited for hardcore needs again so that I can maybe enjoy another playthrough of the game with a new character. It's not something I would consider at all if I kept playing with my level 60 whatever toon, because the game has already devolved into a pretty meaningless shooter at that level.

Last point first, I agree.  FO3/FNV/FO4 do not balance well for anything higher than where you'd generally be when you finish the main story line.

As for the x20 from the start, absolutely.  Actually I started at x50 but the first time I got to a SM satellite base that was FULL of legendary SM and hounds I said F it and dropped it to x20. This didn't remove all those legendary SM though, so that settlement waited about 5 or 10 levels to join the Minutemen. :(

As for the god armor thing... I consider power armor part of the game. By which I mean I'm a PA fanatic and I don't consider it optional  As soon as I get the T-45 in Lexington, I don't ever take it off excepting for crafting and sleeping and (of course) when I have to get out of it because you can't move those heavy folding chairs to hack a terminal.  

I'd imagine I'll have to take it off to eat once that kicks in.  Not sure if there will be a nutrient thing but I'd imagine it'll have a water tank/drinking apparatus, as with a stilsuit or space suit and the like.

 

I can definitely see the 'meaningless shooter' argument.  Honestly, my recollection of the last three FO games was that they were basically meaningless shooters once you'd played enough to choose a path.  You get your goal in mind and side quests are less important and less attention gets paid to them.

Mods fix that by adding new content and new wrinkles.  I figure it'll be the same with FO4.  Thought this is the first one I've started playing with any understanding of modding.  My perspective may change.

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This article seems
Arkngt
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I'm really looking forward to

I'm really looking forward to the Survival mode, which seems to be exactly what the game needs. I hope all features are optional so you can pick and choose what you want as I don't want the save feature.

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I think everyone is unanimous

I think everyone is unanimous that the save feature sucks and everything else is perfect. Hopefully they change that.

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I dislike it without even

I dislike it without even having played it. The reason I won't try the beta is that it disables all mods. I definitely don't want the new save feature, I've always disliked games that won't let me save whenever I want. Also, you can only have ONE save, which is a recipy for disaster for modded Bethesda games. Well, actually for unmodded Bethesda games as well - I learned from experience to keep lots of saves already when playing Morrowind. The only chance that I've ever use the Survival Mode is if they make each feature toggleable.

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Well I can sort of understand

Well I can sort of understand why they are not allowing any mods with the beta. It's beta so they probably want people to play and test it with a vanilla version of the game. Hopefully once it goes live that will change.

The thing with the saves is a deal breaker for me and one of the main reasons I'm opting out of beta. Right now I have to do constant saves because of having issues with random and unexpected CTDs just about anywhere in the game. It's really getting to be frustrating playing the game.

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Yes, I also understand why

Yes, I also understand why they don't allow mods for beta-testing.

If they don't make the features optional and possible to tweak (seems that the hunger/thirst feature basically means that you constantly have to drink/eat, for example), I guess I'll have to wait until modders save the day after the release of the creation kit.

Sorry to hear about the instability. I had a very unstable game during one of my playthroughs and basically started over from scratch (reinstalling the game, starting over with no mods at all). I suspect my issues were caused by the feature in Arbitration which increases the range of AI, but not sure.

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The save feature is the worst

The save feature is the worst.  But what do you mean disables mods? It seems like my mods are loading, but I'm starting a fresh game so I might not have realized it...  damn them to hell!

 

Edit: wait, that can't be right can it? I've seen patches for mods that apply specifically to people playing the survival beta.  Gimme a second here...  there we go.  The 'Full Dialog Interface' has a patch specifically for the survival mode.  Though I can't recall if this mod has an esp/esm.  Maybe it will load xml/hud type files without loading any actual mods.  

 

hmmm.

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Well mods definitely are

Well mods definitely are disabled however for what it's worth there is a workaround that somebody loaded up on Nexus that will allow you to play survival mode with mods if indeed that is what you want to do.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11479/?

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The workaround does indeed

The workaround does indeed work, but only for .esp files, not .esm files. There is already a mod that adds automatic saves much like CASM for New Vegas. They are full saves as well, not quick saves, and they work fine with the new game mode. The only caveat is that the mod uses an Item that can only be gotten through the console, so you should cheat it into your save at the start before you turn Survival mode on. So if you were avoiding the Beta because of the modding or the saving issues, they can already be mostly fixed. -> http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10920/?

 

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Trick I used for keeping mods

Trick I used for keeping mods working is to set the Loadorder.txt and plugin.txt to read only.   The game can not disable them when they're on read only by auto editing the files and removing any unofficial plugins listed.   At least it worked last time I participated in a BETA.  I've not tried the current one.  I also don't use Mod Managers or anything like that for Fallout 4 and do all the adding/removing of models manually including adding them to the load order and plugin .txt files.  

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Kameraden.... I don't think

Kameraden.... I don't think your option will work this time with this beta or at least that is what I've read. I don't know personally since I've opted out of the beta myself. But somewhere I read that they did something with the code of the exe so it will not load mods. Unless you do the workraound...

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No, that method doesn't work

No, that method doesn't work this time around, as Beth is remotely disabling mods for the beta. The other method with the batch file does work though. With some effort you can even sort your plugins to be loaded in the right order so you can load a merged / bashed patch without killing the game.

 

Also of note: the beta forces a crash if it detects archive invalidation in your ini files.

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A new DLC has been revealed,

A new DLC has been revealed, the whole state of Rhode Island.   A whole state to explore is cool and all but what the hey?  Rhode Island, no ill will against Islanders, but what the heck is in RI of Fallout importance!   In the last DLC to be released, to Del' and Back will introduce driveable cars and you will be able to drive over 1,000 game miles on I95.

Lonesome Rhode

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KeltecRFB wrote:

KeltecRFB wrote:

 

A new DLC has been revealed, the whole state of Rhode Island.   A whole state to explore is cool and all but what the hey?  Rhode Island, no ill will against Islanders, but what the heck is in RI of Fallout importance!

Its April 1st?

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.... yeah that's definitely

.... yeah that's definitely an April fool's joke. 

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"... That's why we're going out of our way to make our game less Fallout."

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That is partially unfortunate

That is partially unfortunate.

"TTW is the Fallout version of The One Ring. The One Ring to rule them all."

"Si vis pacem, para bellum!"

My new favorite, the IWI TC-21 Tavor

deadboy
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When is the damned beta for

When is the damned beta for Survival ending and it stops being this pain in the ass that roadblocks/speedbumps mods and disables the damned console?

chucksteel
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My guess is that it will stay

My guess is that it will stay in Beta until they are ready to go live with console modding. You do realize this beta is not about us PC players at all it's about setting the system up for them. 

In the Beth modding video they only time they even mentioned PC's was when they said "Make the mods on PC and share them with all your friends on Xbox and PS4".

deadboy
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Ugh. I just installed your

Ugh. I just installed your Boston Interiors pack and maybe coincidentally maybe not, I can't enter Pickman's Gallery.  I JUST noticed it last night so I'm not even sure you mess with that cell.  

But with them hobbling mods it's a giant PITA to troubleshoot because you can't be certain that a mod is even fully loading. I honestly haven't looked at their mod section. I noticed it in the game menu but haven't gone past that.  Are they trying to use the launcher as a mod loader?

Royhr
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Right now the only locations

Right now the only locations that he's done is Concord. So doubtful that his mod is the issue.

chucksteel
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Yes  I've only done Concord

Yes  I've only done Concord and I've fully cleaned the mod so there shouldn't be anything changing that cell unless I missed something. 

They are trying to use the main menu as a mod manager and download hub. It will be fine for Xbox and PS I'm sure but it kind of sucks for PC players who are used to better tools. I myself haven't gotten NMM to work with the new update so I'm kind of stuck using what beth has put together. (I haven't tried very hard yet to get NMM to work I'm still hopping something better will come out.) 

Royhr
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I'm curious.... When you say

I'm curious.... When you say you haven't gotten NMM to work what exactly do you mean? I use NMM all of the time and it's been working ok for me but maybe you need for it to work differently than just normal usage?

deadboy
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Ah, it's just that the door

Ah, it's just that the door doesn't seem to recognize that it's a door. I just installed the mod yesterday and tried for the first time to go in there yesterday.  I seemed like a place you might fiddle with but honestly my point was that their half assed attempt to mess with modding cripples the ability to effectively troubleshoot.

 

They ATTEMPT to shut it down, but poorly.  Then by turning off the console you can't check the status of various refs or what not to see why it does or doesn't seem to work. It's just hacky. :(

 

And I'm with you.  I can't seem to get NMM to load my mods correctly with the beta survival mode.  And I HONESTLY can't tell if some of them are half way working with the hlp "modname" method and others aren't or none are working and it's all in my head or...

 

It's just a massive pain in the ass.

 

Nofsdad
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I suspect that Beth was

I suspect that Beth was (maybe still is) readying this for the day when they would be able to charge users for you guys' work.  This whole thing about making the mods go through them has no other apparent reason and in spite of the revolt of the modders against monetizing their work I'm thinking they might be going ahead with their original plan.  They certainly seem to be slowly gathering everything about mods and modding into a central point under their control.  And yes, I'll own up to the accusation of conspiracy theorist, at least where games and gaming are concerned. ;)

Nofsdad
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NMM works fine for me.

NMM works fine for me.  Except for the annoying habit of reflagging my plugin list as read only every time it makes a change to it which makes manual load order sorting a bit more of a PITA and having to reenable all my mods in it when 1.5 was installed, I'm having no major problems and I have over 100 mods installed and active.  Now if all those authors making daily changes to the settlement and building keywords would get together and get all their separate ducks in a row, I might be a semi-happy camper for a change.  Maybe I should put a definitive and complete settlement building mod on your request list. :D

Risewild
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Apparently Pete Hines says

Apparently Pete Hines says that modding your game when the mod was not made using the CK is hacking...

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/723861270726868992

That means i know so many hackers .

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