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8nothing
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(Another) Low FPS On A Great Computer

*I'm not exactly sure if this should be posted here; please let me know if it shouldn't*

 

Specs

OS: Windows 10 Home Version 1607 Build 14393.447 64 Bit

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K @ (Overclocked) 4.5 GHz/6 Cores

RAM: 16 Gigabytes DDR4

Motherboard: Asus X99-A BIOS Version 2101

GPU: NVIDIA (Gigabyte) GeForce GTX 1080 @ 8 Gigabytes GDDR5X

My OS is running on a 1 TB 7200 RPM HDD with Fallout New Vegas installed on a 250 GB SSD.

I am using legitimate Steam versions of Fallout 3 GOTY and Fallout New Vegas UE.


Problem

I recently decided to re-download Fallout New Vegas and mod it to hell like I used to (116 Mods Currently). Anyway, I keep getting FPS issues. I have uGridsToLoad equal to 5 and if I increase it at all my FPS goes down below 50. I downloaded TESV Monitor and configured it to work with Fallout to see what exactly the bottleneck was. Apparently, there wasn't a bottleneck anywhere: only 30% of my CPU , 30% of my GPU, 2 Gigabytes of VRAM, and 2 Gigabytes of RAM was being used. Neither my CPU or GPU went above 65 Celsius, which isn't even near the limit. I used the latest NVSE with the new 4 Gigabyte Patcher (http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/62552/?). After using a d3d9 fix, my GPU usage went down to 20% with absolutely zero rise in FPS. I am using an ENB, but when I disabled it the FPS only increased by about 2-4.


What I've Tried

I, like stated before, have tried a d3d9 fix that tricks the game into thinking my GPU is a NVIDIA 8800GS. That didn't help my FPS at all but did reduce the load on my GPU. I have messed around using NVConfigator, and the only setting that helped was the uGridsToLoad setting. Reducing/Disabling any other settings, even shadows, did not help my FPS. I followed this guide (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/ttw-performance-guide) and that did not help my FPS at all either. My ENB enables "fake fullscreen", so that isn't the issue. I rolled back to an old Nvidia driver, 368.81, and that did not help at all. I have already enabled multithreading for everything except sound. I have changed my Havok and HW cores both to 6. This issue persisted when I used only about 90 mods, and I added more mods without any loss whatsoever in FPS.

 

Please let me know if you need more information, and thanks for helping.

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TTW Version Compatibility: 

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Edited by: 8nothing on 12/09/2016 - 22:37
RoyBatty
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The game is cpu bound more

The game is cpu bound more than anything and it has limited multithreading. The engine was made for Pentium III era hardware (xbox 360) and was ported to PC. Heavily scripted mods will bog down FPS, so I would start looking there. Havok threads does nothing, game does not use that setting. Don't use that d3d9 perf fix, it's crap and just cripples the game.

I have an i7 4790k and a GTX980ti and get 60 fps no problem (but windows 7) so I suspect something is misconfigured somewhere or you have too many script heavy mods.

8nothing
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I figured it was something

I figured it was something else besides the usual suspects; for example removing NMC's texture pack did nothing. Is there a way to tell which mods are eating my performance without going through every possible combination? Also, why does the d3d9 fix hurt anything? I'm not using the regular fix (http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/34778/?), I'm using the d3d9 generator (http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/34970/?). Will both of these impact it the same way?

8nothing
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To completely rule out any

To completely rule out any graphical impact, I went through every setting in New Vegas Configator one by one, and every change besides uGridsToLoad did nothing, good or bad. The weird thing is I was getting the same performance when I set uGridsToLoad to 1 as I do with it set to 5. However, if I go above 5 my performance exponentially declines. Not sure if this is worth mentioning, but when I look straight up into the sky my fps goes up to about 100.

RoyBatty
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Configator is a bad tool, don

Configator is a bad tool, don't use it.

Yes, using the "perf fix" will actually hurt performance because it makes the game use the wrong capabilities of your graphics card.

Most of those tweaks and tools are snake oil or even harmful, and only a few of them actually work. The things that work are covered in the performance thread.

8nothing
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If by thread you mean the TTW

If by thread you mean the TTW Performance Guide (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/ttw-performance-guide), then I've already tried everything in that, minus your "vorbis dll" because I couldn't find it. Thanks for the replies by the way, I removed the d3d9 fix without any drop in FPS. That at least declutters it a bit.

8nothing
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Alright, well, thanks for the

Alright, well, thanks for the feedback. I figured that was the case, but just wanted to make sure before giving up.

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You should never change the

You should never change the uGridsToLoad setting, as code in the engine expects the value to be 5 and causes problems if it's not. This isn't Skyrim.

My understanding is that even in Skyrim you really shouldn't change it, and very bad for saved game to change it back and forth, though am sure the OP wasn't doing so...

8nothing
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Yeah, I wasn't using the same

Yeah, I wasn't using the same save to change it. I started a new game and used the glitch to leave the vault as a baby. I did that every time I changed it. The funny thing is, I used the console command "coc Goodsprings" to see if the lag was consistent. When I'm in the Capital wasteland, my fps goes down to about 15ish when uGridsToLoad is 12. In the Mojave, it only goes down to about 30. I can get a constant 60 in the Mojave with it set to around 8, but my fps is still garbage in the Capital. I assume that's expected, or did I install wrong?

RoyBatty
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This has to do with you

This has to do with you changing uGridsToLoad and nothing to do with TTW.

khumak
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Maybe the performance

Maybe the performance bottleneck for the FNV engine is different than Skyrim, but after a lot of testing in Skyrim I discovered that for me the performance bottleneck in Skyrim was amount of video memory on my video card. 

In my case with no mods at all except ENB + SKSE + SKYUI + a few memory mods and an FPS/memory utilization meter I was getting a consistent 60 FPS inside and a horrible 15-30 FPS outside with relatively common dips into single digits.  With over 100 mods added + 2-4k HQ texture mods + max quality settings for lighting and visuals, no change in FPS.  With DynDOLOD set to very low texture size for distant objects but 2-4k textures for nearby objects and all other visual settings at max I get 40-50 FPS outside and a constant 60 inside.

I'm definitely curious what sort of difference I'll see when I try Fallout again.  The only visual enhancement I had to turn off in Skyrim was an enhanced grasses mod that seems to be a huge memory hog.

It's also quite possible that someone with a better computer than mine could have a different bottleneck.  My video card is a 2GB GTX 760.

My understanding of the way ugridstoload and DynDOLOD work though makes me think video memory was in fact your bottleneck as well.  Increasing ugridstoload basically tells the game to load full sized textures for distant objects.  From what I understand, setting ugridstoload higher can also break quests by making the game trigger things that normally only happen when you're close enough to actually see them happening except now you'll miss it.

DynDOLOD basically lets you tell the game to display lower size textures for distant objects instead of the full sized textures so it saves a huge amount of memory especially if you reduce the sizes from it's default.  Not sure if there's something similar for Fallout, I haven't looked yet.  I'm guessing you'd need a couple of 8GB video cards in SLI to be able to set ugridstoload much higher than 5 without massive performance loss though.

(edit: Out of curiousity I went and looked for a comparable FNV mod and there does seem to be one called Lodgen http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/58562/? )

Haven't tried it so no idea how it compares to DynDOLOD as far as ease of use or feature set.

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If you want grass without the

If you want grass without the slow down, use GoS - Grass on Steroids. It's the most awesome grass mod out. I get faster rates with more grass than in vanilla.

RoyBatty
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You can increase the grass

You can increase the grass distance if you have NVAC installed, it fixes the 3000 distance bug. I set it to 14000 myself.

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Hmm - no one noticed that my

Hmm - no one noticed that my reply was on a Skyrim mod, not FONV. Sorry, was playing Skyrim at the time and had Skyrim on the brain.

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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

 

Hmm - no one noticed that my reply was on a Skyrim mod, not FONV. Sorry, was playing Skyrim at the time and had Skyrim on the brain.

 

Haha, well most of my post was also about Skyrim.  The grass mod that I had to disable was the one from Enhanced Landscapes.  It looks good but my FPS drops from 40-50 outside without it to less than 20 with it.  Will have to try the one you mentioned but I think I'm already just at the edge of my video memory with my current setup.

I did notice that with the FO3 engine my FPS went up significantly if I disabled all grass (even the vanilla grass), but I didn't have any sort of FPS meter or anything so I can't quantify how much.  Basically choppiness and stuttering went away without it.

Planning to do some stress testing similar to Skyrim when I get around to reinstalling TTW but I'm having fun with Skyrim for now.  It was actually Skyrim SE that prompted me to start playing it again til I discovered that SKSE doesn't work so most of the mods I like don't work on it.  So I'm playing regular Skyrim, not SE.  It was free though so can't complain too much.

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I don't know - at the same

I don't know - at the same relative settings, FO3/NV is between 50 and 100 percent faster than Skyrim on my A6-5400 APU. It was worse before I optimized the shadow settings and starting using GoS. I also remove the smoke and most particle effects on Skyrim. About the only place I notice Skyrim being faster is in loading - it gets to the main menu faster, and saves load in half the time.

 

khumak
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You mean someone has a worse

You mean someone has a worse graphics card that me?  *shocked*

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luthien wrote:

luthien wrote:

 

I should have excluded APUs and other IGPs from that statement. The 7540D chipset in the video side of your APU is quite terrible. :(

Got that right - it's on the bare edge of playable much of the time. I'm about ready for a new system, but still need to scrimp some bucks to put it together. Ideally, I want one that'll play Doom 2016 and Fallout 4/Skyrim SE at 1920x1080 at a decent rate (at least 40 FPS on the low side). I always put my own systems together using cheap on sale parts from New Egg. You can often find CPUs in a bundle deal with memory and a motherboard. I got the APU with a mobo and 8GB of ram for less than $150. It's served its purpose... done its duty. Now it's time to retire it with honors.

 

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Textures, meshes, and ENB my

Textures, meshes, and ENB my friend!!!  Congrats on the new card.  I ended up giving up on CotW the other day but, let me ask you one thing, do I need to install it as a fomod for it to install properly?  I get the feeling that could be causing the issue as I just installed it with MO and no fomod menu popped up during the process.

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OK, I don't want to jack this

OK, I don't want to jack this thread but one more simple question.  When I start a new game, should the new races such as ghoul, redhead, etc be there at the initial selection menu or do I access them another way?

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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

 

If you want grass without the slow down, use GoS - Grass on Steroids. It's the most awesome grass mod out. I get faster rates with more grass than in vanilla.

Finally got around to trying this and I do take a performance hit but still leaves me at a playable level.  Way less of a performance hit than I get with the grass from SFO or Enhanced Landscapes. 

Haven't decided yet if the nicer grass or a little better FPS makes more difference to me.  I lose about 5-10 FPS with it.  I think as long as my FPS never goes below 35 I'm probably fine.

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It makes more grass than

It makes more grass than vanilla, so you can turn down the grass a bit to get the same amount of grass, but without the speed hit. I believe that's mentioned in the description with a few numbers given for a few levels of grass people might be interested in.

 

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The larger the number, the

The larger the number, the less the grass. It controls how far apart they are spread.

jlf65
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RoyBatty wrote:The larger the

RoyBatty wrote:

The larger the number, the less the grass. It controls how far apart they are spread.

Yes, when I said "turn down the grass," that would be by INCREASING the number in the ini file. Thanks for pointing that out. Some settings could be confusing.

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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

 

RoyBatty wrote:

The larger the number, the less the grass. It controls how far apart they are spread.

 

Yes, when I said "turn down the grass," that would be by INCREASING the number in the ini file. Thanks for pointing that out. Some settings could be confusing.

Yeah took me awhile to wrap my head around it as well.  I use 75 and I like the way it looks.  My FPS is a bit lower but it never drops below 35 so I'm happy with that. I guess I could try 100 or so and see if it makes a noticeable performance difference.

What I really need is to splurge on a better video card but I'm the type that doesn't like to buy a new one til I wear out my old one.  Whatever my next card is will definitely have at least 8 GB of video memory.