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RoyBatty
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Public Poll

https://strawpoll.com/r4sze29

We are asking our community to please vote on this poll.

We want to know if you are OK with Tale of Two Wastelands requiring the JIP LN plugin.

It will make our job much easier and reduce the load of having our custom tweaks be in a separate TTW NVSE plugin. It will also expand what we can do in terms of fixing bugs in the game.

Thank you to our community and fans for your continued interest and support of Tale of Two Wastelands.

 

TTW Version Compatibility: 

v2.9

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I don't get why it would be

I don't get why it would be needed now when all the versions up to 2.49b don't?

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DasFedoraGuy wrote:I don't

DasFedoraGuy wrote:

I don't get why it would be needed now when all the versions up to 2.49b don't?

RoyBatty wrote:

It will make our job much easier and reduce the load of having our custom tweaks be in a separate TTW NVSE plugin. It will also expand what we can do in terms of fixing bugs in the game.


I don't get why TTW team even bothers to ask such a question, when adding JIP LN takes less than 1 minute... or 3 if you're retarded (I know by experience!!).

 

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I say do it.Not like it hurts

I say do it.Not like it hurts anything and if it makes things easier for you guys,then even more reason to go ahead.

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This is going to be exciting!

This is going to be exciting! Some awesome stuff will be happening under the hood for sure. 

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I don't see what the issue is

I don't see what the issue is with requiring it.  I voted for the JIP LN plugin being required...again I don't see the big deal. 

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My only concern would be what

My only concern would be what if JIP LN is ever taken down by its creator?  That would prevent new users from using TTW.  I don't know if that is likely, but it is something which occurred to me.  I've seen plenty of mods get taken down over the last few years.  Maybe I'm just being needlessly paranoid, I don't know. 

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Zetman wrote:My only concern

Zetman wrote:

My only concern would be what if JIP LN is ever taken down by its creator?


Given that its creators are TTW team members...
(not sure about luthien but if hes not an "official" member, I'd wager he's as close as can be ^^)

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DasFedoraGuy
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Some people just want to be

Some people just want to be able to play Fallout 3 in New Vegas without any frills added, and up to this point JIP was never needed for just that.

I don't want to have to be forced to use another loader just to use this mod, I like having a very minimalist mod setup. I understand why they might want to use it for extra features, but I don't see why they can't just create an addon for that and require JIP for the people that want to use those features instead of forcing everyone to use both the extra content and additional loader on top of everything else.

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I was using JIP before I even

I was using JIP before I even heard of TTW, so I'd bet most folks are already using it. I voted yes.

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@DasFedoraGuy

@DasFedoraGuy

As stated by Roy in the opening post:

It will make our job much easier and reduce the load of having our custom tweaks be in a separate TTW NVSE plugin. It will also expand what we can do in terms of fixing bugs in the game.

Having fewer plugins is a far better solution given the games propensity to fall over when it reaches a certain number. Also loading NVSE and NVSE-plugins is such a simple matter that takes nothing extraordinary to setup.

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DasFedoraGuy wrote:

DasFedoraGuy wrote:

 

Some people just want to be able to play Fallout 3 in New Vegas without any frills added, and up to this point JIP was never needed for just that.

I don't want to have to be forced to use another loader just to use this mod, I like having a very minimalist mod setup. I understand why they might want to use it for extra features, but I don't see why they can't just create an addon for that and require JIP for the people that want to use those features instead of forcing everyone to use both the extra content and additional loader on top of everything else.

I dont think you understand what that plugin is.It litterally does nothing except sit in your folder and only has use for mod's that need it.This isnt a big deal at all.

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I voted "YES," but I think

I voted "YES," but I think this is something the team will have to think about seriously. Don't just blindly follow the poll and assume it represents all of the end users, there are many people who don't frequent this forum. A lot of people really fear NVSE for some reason, especially NVSE addons like Jip-LN. 

"I have never advocated war except as means of peace, so seek peace, but prepare for war. Because war... War never changes. War is like winter and winter is coming." - Ulysses S. Grant. (maybe?)

DasFedoraGuy
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Actually I do, I just prefer

Deathclaw_Mayor16

Actually I do, I just prefer to keep the number of plugins and mods I need to use at a bare minimum, and all I care about is playing Fallout 3 in New Vegas. I don't care about any new extra features, game bug fixes, and whatnot.

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Actually, wanna change my

Actually, wanna change my vote!!

I *NEED* TTW to mod using tools from the stoneage because my religion (one that I created for myself, like right now =]) makes using mods from newest techs a no-no.

Join me and lets have the mods made PURE! YAYY Purity First!! =)
(Gotta love this trailer ^^)

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DasFedoraGuy wrote:

DasFedoraGuy wrote:

 

Deathclaw_Mayor16

Actually I do, I just prefer to keep the number of plugins and mods I need to use at a bare minimum, and all I care about is playing Fallout 3 in New Vegas. I don't care about any new extra features, game bug fixes, and whatnot.

Let me explain this situation.

TTW already requires NVSE (even the old 2.94b version available for everyone) for many years now, and if 3.0 will not have the JIP LN plugin it will have a TTW Plugin instead.

JIP LN not only will contain all the things from the TTW Plugin but also contain way more things (already included on JIP LN). This is a very good thing because it opens a lot of new possibilities for how to make TTW work properly and can even improve performance depending on the situation.

Also this way the creators of JIP LN will not have to work on two different plugins (their original one and the TTW one), which will save time and make everything more organized for them.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention, the plans are for the Installer to automatically install the JIP LN just like it already installs the NVSE. So the user will not have to do it manually.

 

This plugin is not a mod, it will not take space on the load order, it is a NVSE plugin and will be in the NVSE plugins folder. And I repeat this again: TTW already requires NVSE and it will still have a TTW NVSE plugin even if people vote no for JIP LN.

It is basically a decision of using a pocket knife or a swiss army knife while working on TTW.

DasFedoraGuy
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Risewild wrote:

Risewild wrote:

 

DasFedoraGuy wrote:

 

Deathclaw_Mayor16

Actually I do, I just prefer to keep the number of plugins and mods I need to use at a bare minimum, and all I care about is playing Fallout 3 in New Vegas. I don't care about any new extra features, game bug fixes, and whatnot.

 

Let me explain this situation.

TTW already requires NVSE (even the old 2.94b version available for everyone) for many years now, and if 3.0 will not have the JIP LN plugin it will have a TTW Plugin instead.

JIP LN not only will contain all the things from the TTW Plugin but also contain way more things (already included on JIP LN). This is a very good thing because it opens a lot of new possibilities for how to make TTW work properly and can even improve performance depending on the situation.

Also this way the creators of JIP LN will not have to work on two different plugins (their original one and the TTW one), which will save time and make everything more organized for them.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention, the plans are for the Installer to automatically install the JIP LN just like it already installs the NVSE. So the user will not have to do it manually.

 

This plugin is not a mod, it will not take space on the load order, it is a NVSE plugin and will be in the NVSE plugins folder. And I repeat this again: TTW already requires NVSE and it will still have a TTW NVSE plugin even if people vote no for JIP LN.

It is basically a decision of using a pocket knife or a swiss army knife while working on TTW.

And let me explain this to you.

I don't care what you're personal stance is on JIP. And I really don't care if you use it or not for your mods already.

However I would like to keep the amount of plugins and mods that I need to use for my game as low as possible. Also you and everyone else here is implying that I don't want to use JIP at all period. Or that I hate it and think it's the spawn of the devil, that I don't understand how plugins work, all sorts of nasty assumptions.  These are all false, as I stated earlier that I would prefer (prefer being the operative word here) to not use it unless necessary. Either way I'd still be using TTW.

Risewild
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DasFedoraGuy wrote:

DasFedoraGuy wrote:

 

Risewild wrote:

 

DasFedoraGuy wrote:

 

Deathclaw_Mayor16

Actually I do, I just prefer to keep the number of plugins and mods I need to use at a bare minimum, and all I care about is playing Fallout 3 in New Vegas. I don't care about any new extra features, game bug fixes, and whatnot.

 

Let me explain this situation.

TTW already requires NVSE (even the old 2.94b version available for everyone) for many years now, and if 3.0 will not have the JIP LN plugin it will have a TTW Plugin instead.

JIP LN not only will contain all the things from the TTW Plugin but also contain way more things (already included on JIP LN). This is a very good thing because it opens a lot of new possibilities for how to make TTW work properly and can even improve performance depending on the situation.

Also this way the creators of JIP LN will not have to work on two different plugins (their original one and the TTW one), which will save time and make everything more organized for them.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention, the plans are for the Installer to automatically install the JIP LN just like it already installs the NVSE. So the user will not have to do it manually.

 

This plugin is not a mod, it will not take space on the load order, it is a NVSE plugin and will be in the NVSE plugins folder. And I repeat this again: TTW already requires NVSE and it will still have a TTW NVSE plugin even if people vote no for JIP LN.

It is basically a decision of using a pocket knife or a swiss army knife while working on TTW.

 

And let me explain this to you.

I don't care what you're personal stance is on JIP. And I really don't care if you use it or not for your mods already.

However I would like to keep the amount of plugins and mods that I need to use for my game as low as possible. Also you and everyone else here is implying that I don't want to use JIP at all period. Or that I hate it and think it's the spawn of the devil, that I don't understand how plugins work, all sorts of nasty assumptions.  These are all false, as I stated earlier that I would prefer (prefer being the operative word here) to not use it unless necessary. Either way I'd still be using TTW.

Let me explain this again.   My post was a general information post. Not just for you.

I quoted your post because I addressed your worries about keeping the number of plugins down in my post too.

With or without JIP LN the number will be the exact same anyway because TTW will need it's own plugin if it doesn't use the JIP LN one. After I said that I included more info for other people who might not even know what NVSE plugins are and might get worried that it will clog their Load Order.

You seem very defensive when no one accused you of not knowing anything. If you have seen most of my posts about new features and things in this forum I always make a general informative post, I rarely make a post concerning just one person. While you know things many other users don't, so instead of me making several posts I make one as to not spam the forum.

When you (generalizing you, not you specifically) have been dealing with users in this forum for as many years as I have, you learn that you have to explain stuff for those who know things that seem obvious and those who know nothing about it.

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DasFedoraGuy, from my part

DasFedoraGuy, from my part know that I fully respect your opinion, no matter how different.

It is just that sometimes one's got to find ways to amuse oneself in this twisted road to 3.0.
That and Roy looks like he wanna run a democracy. I'm disappointed... Should have learned better from Dave

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No issues from me, as I

No issues from me, as I already use it for CASM's latest update with MCM support.

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No issues for me absolutely,

No issues for me absolutely, if anything this means you guys are taking bug fixing to the next level.

does this mean TTW is coming out of alpha soon? :P

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Not wanting to be harsh, but

Not wanting to be harsh, but it's one of those things where if using these plugins is too radical for you, TTW might not be for you in the first place. Not speaking for the developers, of course, just my opinion.

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JimmyFraska wrote:Not wanting

JimmyFraska wrote:

Not wanting to be harsh, but it's one of those things where if using these plugins is too radical for you, TTW might not be for you in the first place. Not speaking for the developers, of course, just my opinion.


If you join/accompany for some time through Discord, you see how much of FO3 was torn/broken by Obsidian when doing NV, from a presentation standpoint NV may seem just as good or better than FO3, but "under the carpet" and into the technical aspects of it... lets just say TTW dedicated modders have suffered wonders to bring FO3 close to full functionality into NV, JIP LN furthers help with that.


(Then Bethesda went and took a step back in so many directions with FO4, but that's another matter and off-topic, just IRKS ME SO MUCH WHEN I REMEMBER... time to take one of the pills!)

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I use it already for a few

I use it already for a few other mods, so it isn't a problem.

GrantSP
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The most disturbing thing

The most disturbing thing about this poll is 25% of respondents don't know what the JIP-LN plugin is!

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Requiring external utilities

Requiring external utilities is fine in my opinion. It's almost a given that a user is already using a mod managing utility to install TTW anyway, so having to download a simple utility like JIP to use TTW should be trivial to anyone interested in this project. 

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Pathlessbullet wrote:

Pathlessbullet wrote:

 

Requiring external utilities is fine in my opinion. It's almost a given that a user is already using a mod managing utility to install TTW anyway, so having to download a simple utility like JIP to use TTW should be trivial to anyone interested in this project. 

It's even easier than having to download JIP LN. The way we want to make it is for our installer to automatically download and install JIP LN. So the users will not even need to do anything.

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Risewild wrote:The way we

Risewild wrote:

The way we want to make it is for our installer to automatically download and install JIP LN. So the users will not even need to do anything.

Please have a work-around for people who can't download in Windows. I only ever download stuff in linux - I even disable the ethernet device in the device manager under Windows. Maybe a temp directory for the required stuff that folks can pre-fill before running the installer.

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jlf65 wrote:

jlf65 wrote:

 

Risewild wrote:

The way we want to make it is for our installer to automatically download and install JIP LN. So the users will not even need to do anything.

Please have a work-around for people who can't download in Windows. I only ever download stuff in linux - I even disable the ethernet device in the device manager under Windows. Maybe a temp directory for the required stuff that folks can pre-fill before running the installer.

I don't think that the installer will prevent you from download the file yourself if needed. After all, JIP LN is available on the Nexus .

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We're not going to support

We're not going to support fringe cases, too much work for too little benefit.

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I have a question, will the

I have a question, will the installer let you toggle off jip ln installation if we already have it set up ourselves?

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It probably will detect if it

It probably will detect if it's installed already.

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Okie, that's cool. Thanks for

Okie, that's cool. Thanks for answering. 

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Cool, thanks. That's all I

Cool, thanks. That's all I need.

 

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14 people have voted No so

14 people have voted No so far, we'd like to hear from you. Please tell us why you are not OK with it.

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There's 6 more days to voice

There's 6 more days to voice your opinion, currently it looks like the vast majority of users are fine with it.

We've already made our decision to go forward with requiring it, but we'd still like to hear from you.

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For those of us that us MO,

For those of us that use MO, the "installation detection" won't really run. I'm someone who likes to keep his installation folder nice and clean... though I know how to go in and remove it anyhow :) I'd vote for, since most people like a one-click interface to make their lives easier.

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It honestly just makes more

It honestly just makes more sense to have it, most people install it anyway

I used to have a life but then I discovered TTW.

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I'm totally fine with it,

I'm totally fine with it, personally, and I don't see why it would be a problem. It's really, really easy to install, and having it installed is a necessity for tons of other mods - so it's probably already in most peoples' mod lists, regardless.

I vote to require it. It's a tiny sacrifice (if you could even call it one, considering) for a huge amount of gain.

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We didn't see the difference

We didn't see the difference between including our stuff in JIP_LN or just having it in our own plugin, so we'll just put our custom stuff into that. Either way it would require a plugin and TTW already requires NVSE.

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Well.. I'm a day late and the

Well.. I'm a day late and the poll is closed..  However.. Make it a requirement!!  Or even include it with your TTW 3.0 Installer!  My mods needs it, your mods needs it.. We all need it!!  That shouldn't even been a poll question IMO!!  If it's needed and simplifies things on your end to help us on our end.. play NIKE and JUST DO IT!!  All of my NVSE plugins put together currently makes less the 1MB of space used with soooo much extra funcionality.  I can't believe some of the conversation this poll has brought out.  NVSE Plugin jacking up a load order?  It's not even a plugin counted in the game..  it's an addon for Pete's sake..  anyhow..  it's definitely needed.

CyberDanz The public junkie who LOVES Fallout!

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They can't include the plugin
They can't include the plugin for legal reason and you couldn't update it easily via mo because mo would not recognize it. And jip is still updated so this is needed.
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We can include it, jip is on

We can include it, jip is on our team and has given permission. But yes, MO would have issues with that... but that's on MO users to deal with.

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No issues really, whether it

No issues really, whether it is installed manually outside of MO or via MO it will work regardless.

Most MO users will no doubt already have it installed and they can just remove the new TTW install copy. Easy!

Now let's bring on version 3.0. Woohoo!