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Risewild
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More awesome news

We already told you about the awesome Rock-it Launcher fix, now it is time to reveal more things.

The next version of TTW will include another two features that would have been impossible without some awesome magic, they are:

Weapons that ignore DT/DR will finally be fixed and ignore damage reduction and damage threshold like they should have from the start. Now Deathclaw and Yao Guai Gauntlets, Rippers, Chainsaws, Thermic Lances, Industrial Hands, etc are all fun to play with again!

A repair system similar to the one from Fallout 3 is now possible to implement on TTW. No more being able to repair everything to 100% with low repair skill, this also makes it so that the vendors that repair equipment will be more useful.

These two things should be toggleable in the TTW MCM.

These features were only possible due to the hard work of jazzisparis.

TTW Version Compatibility: 

v2.9

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Edited by: Risewild on 05/30/2017 - 00:14
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Does that mean 3.0 requires

Does that mean 3.0 requires JIP LN plugin?

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Awesome!!

Awesome!!

FO3 repair is a must, TTW should set it as the starting default method.

The weapons I've mixed feelings since those need good balance to not become OP, but going melee always requires (and welcomes) incentive =]

A good mod/overhaul that synergizes melee and unarmed combat (so that one provides bonuses to the other) could be a sweet change to close combat oriented characters. Hmm gonna create a topic about it in the request/ideas forum section ^^

(https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/tweaking-unarmed-skill-melee-combat-incentive)

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Currently trying to get the FWE Wasteland Explorer bike to work in TTW =X

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H1ms3lf wrote:

H1ms3lf wrote:

FO3 repair is a must, TTW should set it as the starting default method.

I STRONGLY disagree. The whole point of TTW, as I understand it, is to bring Fallout 3 into New Vegas' superior engine. What you are suggesting would have the opposite effect, overwriting a New Vegas feature with a Fallout 3 one. It would be no different than replacing DT with DR or removing iron-sights or hardcore mode. I would like it as an OPTIONAL file for users who want it, but making it the default goes against the philosophy of TTW, IMO. People who want Vegas to be unaffected by TTW should be the default, not the ones who have to use optional patches. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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Woah! That is impressive. I

Woah! That is impressive. I`ve been avoiding deathclaw gauntlets for a while now. Should be soon before I start using them again. 

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a2937 wrote:Woah! That is

a2937 wrote:

Woah! That is impressive. I`ve been avoiding deathclaw gauntlets for a while now. Should be soon before I start using them again.

I normally make one and stick it on the wall in my underground bunker. Maybe I'll actually use one when 3.0 comes out.

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Thanks for your amazingness

Thanks for your amazingness jazzisparis. 

 

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We'd like to have the

We'd like to have the features in the TTW plugin so it doesn't require JIPLN, but I haven't talked to him about that yet.

Both will be enabled by default (but can be disabled). The repair change was one of the things NV did that was not necessarily a good decision. In fact I strongly dislike/approve of that change to the game mechanics for multiple reasons.

  • It unbalances early game and makes it too easy to get decent armor and weapons even with a skill of 8.
  • This in turn also removes the entire weapon degradation and jamming system, which the weapon degradation was already altered to affect damage reduction less. That just compounds the changes and again unbalances the game.
  • Weapons and armor durability calculations were changed already to make them last longer, in addition to increasing the health on most items. Again this compounds changes that were already made and creates a further unbalance.
  • It unbalances the economy heavily especially in early game, something NV definitely doesn't need.
  • It makes the repair skill mostly a dump stat instead of being one of the most important.
  • It devalues weapon repair kits to the point of being useless, which in turn also affects the crafting system and the reason to scrounge those components.
  • It makes repair skill magazines and books useless.

Just because it's in NV doesn't mean it's good by default. That particular decision was half baked at best. I respect JSawyer as a designer, but in this particular case I strongly disagree for the reasons stated.

TTW's mission statement is to bring Fallout 3 up to New Vegas mechanics standards yes, but not at the cost of Fallout 3's balancing, feel and flow. There are a great number of users who purely use TTW to play Fallout 3, and that user base has up until now been neglected. Enhancements that TTW makes are now mostly disabled by default and optional in order to preserve more of a pure vanilla experience when possible. It is simple enough to add these things as optionals and create a platform where modding can shape the game as the player desires. In this case it is enabled by default, but will be easy to disable for those who do not like the decisions. Flexibility is key to the new mission goals.

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It's good that TTW provides

It's good that TTW provides the options to choose from, so each player can play as he/she desires.

I personally think TTW main design should try to enhance the game(s) whenever possible, and in this case the previous repair was lacking/broken. Good to see that you guys are willing to step up and make the tough choices, tunning/tweaking every other mod in the future to work with TTW is gonna be a lot sweeter with a repair skill that holds depth.

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Currently trying to get the FWE Wasteland Explorer bike to work in TTW =X

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Sounds awesome Roy. Thank you

Sounds awesome Roy. Thank you (TTW team) for all your time and work for all of us to enjoy. 

If life is but a test, where's the damn answer key?!?!?

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I guess the TTW team needs to

I would greatly appreciate if the TTW team would publish a new "mission statement" for the mod. As a long term user who has gotten used to the old mentality of "don't touch Vegas," these changes are a bit... startling.

I kind of want to know what the heck I am getting into as an end user of this mod. Where is it headed? Turning FNV into Fallout 3? Something else? It has clearly gone beyond simply porting and patching FO3 into New Vegas. 

 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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The team has decided to make

The team has decided to make that off by default.

Some concessions have to be made. Not everyone uses TTW for the same reasons, some people want to just use it to play Fallout 3, and we want to accommodate that too.

The goal is to integrate the games, things mostly get changed on the Fallout 3 side of things to compensate for the mechanics. However in order for a lot of Fallout 3 stuff to even work properly things have to be changed in Vegas sometimes, the Companions are a prime example of that.

This has been said before, TTW is now being treated like it's own game. In order for the project to move forward and raise it's overall quality and polish we've been spending countless hours working on it. It's really hard to make things which were designed by different people to work well together, so some middle ground has to be found. We try very hard to remain conservative about it too. So all we can ask is you suspend judgement until it's released and you've had a chance to play it.

We already know some people are not going to be happy with some things and gracious for others, you can't please all the people all the time. When it comes down to it, the motivation for such a project is based on the desires of the people who put the work into it. Without that motivation it will die and fade away.

That all being said, everything is being made as optional as possible, so *you* can choose how you want to play TTW.

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On the subject of bugs, what

On the subject of bugs, what's the state of the vendor contianer CTD?

Might have been fixed, but I remember this being a right pain in the ass. If an NPC has a vendor container in an unloaded cell, different to the one that the player and the trader are in, the game will CTD when you barter with the trader.

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For my $0.02. 

For my $0.02. 

I wasn't a Fallout player until Fallout 3, and that honestly was a fluke because I had a gaming store at the time and it was the "in" game. After watching others play, I joined in a was hooked. I've put literally 1000's of hours into Fallout 3 and then New Vegas (although not nearly as much in Vegas). There are aspects of Vegas that are better than 3, but there are aspects of 3 which are better than Vegas. Both are awesome games, but they have their strong and weak points. 

When I found TTW I thought it was awesome, didn't agree with everything but was still awesome.  I felt that TTW would be at it's best if it took the "best" of both games (yes best is subjective) or for a simpler aspect the most balanced from both games. IMO repair is better in Fallout 3, you have to use resources better and plan more and utilize a skill. FNV has better speech challenges, again you have to use a skill. 

Can you please everyone? Of course not. But everything I've ever learned about creative projects is that you do them for yourselves and hope others like it as well. 

I greatly appreciate the effort the TTW team puts into an awesome project (it's FAR more than a mere mod) and that they listen to suggestions and opinions. But ultimately it's their project that they are gracious enough to share with the rest of us. IF it can be made with optional plugins via MCM that's awesome, but if there are aspects that can't be done this way we have to respect their decisions. This is a moddable game so we can always adjust it to our tastes anyway. 

Thanks again Roy, Rise, Jazz, and the rest of the team (Rise could you update that page on who's who on the team again?) 

If life is but a test, where's the damn answer key?!?!?

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RoyBatty wrote: The goal is

RoyBatty wrote:

The goal is to integrate the games, things mostly get changed on the Fallout 3 side of things to compensate for the mechanics. However in order for a lot of Fallout 3 stuff to even work properly things have to be changed in Vegas sometimes, the Companions are a prime example of that.

This has been said before, TTW is now being treated like it's own game. In order for the project to move forward and raise it's overall quality and polish we've been spending countless hours working on it. It's really hard to make things which were designed by different people to work well together, so some middle ground has to be found. We try very hard to remain conservative about it too. So all we can ask is you suspend judgement until it's released and you've had a chance to play it.

That actually clears things up nicely! Thanks for the clarification, Roy. I understand that the TTW player base is diverse, (and the team as well, I suspect) and that you cannot please everyone. I also understand that you are not obligated to do so. I am sorry if my previous post seemed entitled or demanding. You all have put a lot of work into this project and I am grateful to have TTW to play at all! 

EDIT: My personal opinion (which is rather immaterial) is that New Vegas is better balanced and has better mechanics. I don't like .32 ammo, I don't like Fallout 3's repair system, I DO like having access to the "Cowboy" style weapons in the Capital Wasteland, and I even prefer for Fallout 3 mutants to be as strong as New Vegas' super mutants. Obviously some of these changes might alter the tone of the game, and other people might not like that. So I think making everything optional is a good decision! 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

RoyBatty
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Yes we all have different

Yes we all have different opinions too, and have had heated discussions over them. :D

My personal opinion is I don't like NV's repair, I don't like the OP speech checks, I find magazines a useless and frivolous addition to the game and prefer skill books with the 1-2 point system for a permanent boost and giving me a reason to explore and find them, I like the tougher supermutants and centaurs of NV, I like the tougher reavers, radscorps and robots of Fallout 3, I don't like many of the weapons from NV appearing in DC where they are out of place and it would be just as silly to put the Fallout 3 ones in NV imo, I don't like the West Coast armors on the East Coast and I wouldn't like the East Coast ones on the West Coast either, I sure as hell don't want Geckos, Mantis, Big Horners or Securitrons in DC, nor do I want Mirelurks or Albinos in NV, although Rats would be fine in DC, I want the .32 weapons, as they were balanced differently and many mods made use of that ammo type however I want the hunting rifle to have a different appearance and mods which I am in the process of making, optional of course.

So you can see that I want my game setup different than other people too.

That said, we have set things up now to easily accommodate any combination of features and also made making mods to make the game how you like much easier to do. There are already full sets of leveled lists to just drop your guns and armor and what not into with minimal fuss and without causing major incompatibilities.

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I imagine that everyone has

I imagine that everyone has different preferences. I don't expect you to cater to my personal wishes. I was just stating my personal preferences so everyone could see which "camp" I fall into on these issues. I am glad you guys have worked so hard to make the mod appeal to a wide audience! 

With regards to weapons, I understand your point. Which weapons fit which game is quite subjective, and the default should probably be whatever the majority of the team is comfortable with. I never had an issue with the "Cowboy" stuff in DC, but for whatever reason, the 9mm pistol seemed wrong (even though most people don't mind the 9mm in DC). Likewise, I think that many DC weapons fit well in New Vegas. I can understand how trying to find a balance between two different games with two different tones can be challenging, especially given the subjectivity inherit in such decisions. 

P.S. You should totally make a mod which has all the features you prefer! Sounds like an interesting vision for TTW. It would be like TJ's old Panzer mod or Jsawyer's mod! 

EDIT: I just noticed that you said "also made making mods to make the game how you like much easier to do." If this means what I think it means, it means you are making customizing TTW easier for the end user? I made a few edits for personal use in older versions (Removing West Coast enclave armor from Fallout 3, restoring the .32 pistol, adding 10mm back to Vault 101, etc.) and if these types of edit are easier now, that is great news. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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Not sure if this is the right

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but how is the hunting rifle handled? Since it has .32 rounds in 3, but .308 rounds in NV. It's been too long since I last played TTW (waiting for 3.0), so I can't remember how it was originally handled.

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One thing I've learned from

One thing I've learned from Modding is, that there are 1000 different views how things should be. If you want to please every request, then you will offer 1000 different options and will spend way too much time to implement all these options. Modding different options is sometimes very time consuming. One reason I never updated NSkies at some point was, that I had so many options, that it became very difficult to change simple things without having to review all options as well. It's not motivating to create options if you personally don't have interest in them. If I ever would update NSkies again, I most likely would kick all these optional crap, what would result in people requesting the old version back. You should create your vision and don't feel the need to please everyone. Game Designers normally also don't offer you various options. They create their vision and you have to take it, or change it by modding it yourself. So, everyone who complains about things not being like they expect, could open the Geck and do it on their own. I think that is how most of us start with modding.

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The options have already been

The options have already been made, and will continue to be as side projects when we get bored and want to be more creative.

You don't have to worry about the 10mm and stuff anymore, it was reverted. The armors are also now optional so you don't have to worry about that either.

The hunting rifle is currently the .308 one, it was originally supposed to be 30-06 but they changed it to .32 for some reason for Fallout 3, design choice I guess. There will be an optional at some point to restore the .32 pistol and rifle, my plan is to use Paciencia's texture and model for the New Vegas .308 hunting rifle sans the Mexican flag which I have already done, I may change the stock to the sportster stock too to further differentiate it. I want different mods for the .32 rifle too so they don't seem like the same gun as much, it will also have the correct sights for a Winchester Model 70 Alaskan (what the hunting rifle is) which I am in the process of modeling.

As for an overhaul I was discussing a leveling overhaul last night with darth, we planned to make full set of tier 1 to tier 5 or 6 enemy spawn lists for both wastelands to account for the level 50 cap like Lonesome Road has. This will include making all encounter zones re-spawn at the players current level instead of staying at the level of first encounter.

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Yossarian wrote:You should

Yossarian wrote:

You should create your vision and don't feel the need to please everyone. Game Designers normally also don't offer you various options. They create their vision and you have to take it, or change it by modding it yourself.

That's true for mostly all fields, but more noticeable on mass medias like publicity/games or television/cinema. It is also what separates the truly talented from the rest, they know how to twist and accommodate their vision into something that will please the majority and leave fewer/smaller holes.

 

For the most I entirely agree with RoyBatty (great minds think alike \o/), things have to abide lorewise, but I've a soft spot for change, for example, wouldn't mind Mirelurks on NV in a specific spot/role where they fit, same for NV stuff on DC. However, go "throwing" stuff left and right without any lore/care or specific accommodations (which I imagine is what Roy was referring to) really doesn't sits well, feels like something slap together.

YES, trying to make everything make sense would take A LOT of effort and extra work, BUT, sometimes all it takes is a little care and extra work (failing that, it's often best to entirely avoid doing), however, most people are careless and inconsiderate, that's the truth of the matter for me =P

I'm already worrying about what to do with the (ridiculous) magazines. Would be cool if there was a script or mod of some sort that changes magazines to a permanent +1 skill book of that category, or to a drug that temporarily enhance said skill (to a lesser extent than the ludicrous mags), since drugs often have weird side effects to them making it a win/lose - conditional situation. This script/mod would obviously have a (very!) small chance to convert for skill books and a greater chance to convert into drug(s).

Another thing is that I can't play the games in "vanilla" state, both (FO3 specially) is so easy/merciful and unrealistic in terms of difficulty and resources that I can't stand it, always have to tune up scarcity of resources and enemies toughness (sadly a poor replacement for good AI).

And then... slowly, steady and onwards we advance! Glad that TTW exists :)
PS: I remember .308 ammo (snipers rilfes?) being kinda rare to find in DC, had to run into Casdin for reliable amounts, curious to see how rare TTW makes it.
PS2: Regarding repair, the full bonus while 50% and above is a nice change from NV, but how effective repairing is (player, NPCs, kits) needs to go according the value of repair skill. Player with 50 repair gets a kit to work at half its total effectiveness, and NPC with 50 can't repair past that.

Compulsive post editor and CEO for the ENDLESS WAVES OF BAD DOGGIE!!
Currently trying to get the FWE Wasteland Explorer bike to work in TTW =X

jlf65
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NV magazines ARE pretty weird

NV magazines ARE pretty weird - a TEMPORARY boost to a skill? What? Did you forget what you read after 20 minutes? I've used a magazine once or twice. The times I could really use a magazine, I never had the right one, but I'd have six or seven that I NEVER use anywhere.

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I think one reason Roy does

I think one reason Roy does not just make TTW into his personal vision, Yossarian, is because he is part of a team, and all the members have their own vision of the game. You can make Nevada Skies however you want, because you are the sole owner of the mod, and are thus beholden to none. It would be a rude for Roy to try to force everyone else on the TTW team to submit to his vision of the mod. They are all woking on this project together, and need to make something they can all enjoy. 

As for your comment about game developers not giving options, I rather disagree. Most games have a difficulty slider, and many have other player-selectable features. For example, New Vegas has difficulty adjustment, Hardcore mode, and Wild Wasteland, allowing each and every player to chose their personal preference of how silly, how hard, and how realistic they want their game experience to be. A very hard, hardcore, No-WW run is very different from a normal difficulty, non-hardcore, WW run, for example. Or from a hard, hardcore, WW run, etc. 

Certainly, there is no obligation for any developer to provide optional features, but in most role-playing games, such features allow the game to appeal to a wider audience and are beneficial to the community. 

A short list of TTW optional features which I think the community has GREATLY benefited from having: Startup Menu, Bobble Heads Changes, and Reputations. If any of these files were dropped, the TTW player base would inevitably shrink due to disagreement with whatever choice the team made. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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With the newly released GOG

With the newly released GOG versions of both games, do you guys need a donation of these versions, or will it be bought by a member of team itself? I know they just released today, so if that has not been figured out yet, then that is fine.

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You got some points Ender. I

You got some points Ender. I guess, that one part of the success of Nevada Skies is, that it offers so many options. Game developers nowadays seem also more open for customizing your play experience. Well, what I wanted to point out is, that I for my part wouldn't go this route again. Adding options adds flexibility to the user, but removes flexibility from the modder. As example, once you provided a optional brighter nights plugin, you can't really make the nights brighter in the main mod anymore. If you did, you would have to adjust the brigher nights plugin as well. The more options you have, the more difficult it becomes to change simple things. From a player point of view I'm of course happy to have many options such as the Startup Menu.

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I understand. Many games do

I understand. Many games do have fixed features sets that the user cannot easily change. Sometimes, the creator of a creative project is working for his/her own benefit, and does not enjoy catering to the desires of the end user. Other times, the creator has a very specific vision of what their game should be, and does not want the end user to be able to circumvent their intended gameplay experience. For example, the older Witcher games did not even have a difficulty slider, let alone complex options for customizing gameplay. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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what's the ETA on this? haven

what's the ETA on this? haven't used a mod like this since a requiem for the capital wasteland, and im wondering if it's worth installing the released version now or waiting for version 3.0. 

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The version that's released

The version that's released as of now is pretty stable and not that buggy really, and who knows when this one will be released. I'd say its worth it.

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That depends; do you want to

That depends; do you want to be stuck using the current version? Because if you install it now, you will not be able to update when 3.0 comes out without starting a new save. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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Cant wait for this wonderful

Cant wait for this wonderful new version! hopefully this will encourage the conversion of more awesome fallout 3 mods!

Enomer

thatcatcameback (not verified)
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What's the difference between

What's the difference between FO3 Repair and FNV Repair? Never played 3. 

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@ thatcatcameback  i belive

@ thatcatcameback  i belive the repair amount was directly related to your skill in 3, making low level players need to seek out npc's who repaired things

Risewild
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It was also skill locked. Not

It was also skill locked. Not only you repaired the weapon/armor less with less Repair skill but, you couldn't repair the equipment past a % of it's durability also depending on how much repair skill you have (so no repair things to 100% with 25 repair skill).

Again I point out this is optional.

 

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Excited about the repair

Excited about the repair optional being like Fallout 3's.That'll give weapon repair kits a much better purpose.Same with vendor's who can repair.Was way to easy to repair everything to full condition.Especially if you had the Jury Rigging perk.

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Just wanted to chime in that

Just wanted to chime in that both items from the OP are extremely welcome news.

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Fallout 3 Repair sounds

Fallout 3 Repair sounds pretty cool, glad that it's an option.

RoyBatty
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You can add items to repair

You can add items to repair lists in NV as well, nothing stopping you from making such a mod.

jtgibson
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I indeed fully planned on

I indeed fully planned on making such a mod -- I was merely asking that the old FO3 behaviour remain intact and that the plugin wouldn't impose an incorrect restriction on the item condition on non-weapons by erroneously treating them identically to weapons, such that my mod would work as intended. ;-)

For empiricism's sake, I'm now tempted to install FO3 just to verify that it does behave as I remember it, though... 7 years ago, after all.  [edit] Duct Tape wasn't even in FO3, apparently, so one part of my memory is definitely fuzzy.  (It's amazing I still have a functional install of FO3Edit.  Had to reorder my .esm file dates manually since Steam downloaded them out of order, though.)  If I can get FO3 to stop locking up at random intervals, presumably because of GFWL, I should be able to test this minimod...

[edit] And I indeed remembered incorrectly!  D'oheth.  Well, hooray for the scientific method. ;-)

RoyBatty
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get GFWL disabler and do the

get GFWL disabler and do the multicore tweak, and update FO3 edit that old version is buggy as hell.

Litrevan
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I'm doing a F03 run right now

I'm doing a F03 run right now, and would like to comment comment on the way speech and repair works in the game versus FNV. I'm not going to focus on the crashes I'm enduring or the mistake I made loading both FOOK2 and FWE together, but I do really like how speech checks works in 3 with this setup.

I have a chance to make a speech check whether I have the necessary value or not. In FNV, I either end up waiting or end up getting frustrated and just cheat and pass the speech check that way, then set back. Stupid, but there it is.

While I was originally dismayed on repair, I kept working at it and eventually managed to get up to worthwhile on weapons on armor. Perhaps it was the mods helping especially CRAFT, I'll try another run without mods and see how that works.

Have never tried TTW, looking forward to it with interest, especially if I can run FNV with fewer crashes on it.

EnderDragonFire
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"In FNV, I either end up

"In FNV, I either end up waiting or end up getting frustrated and just cheat and pass the speech check that way, then set back. Stupid, but there it is."

Well, that argument could be made for any stat-locked content in any game ever made. The way it is supposed to work is you wait, or you don't do the check at all. Cheating to get every check in the game without the actual skill needed is not the intended way to play the game. It's no different than cheating to open a lock that is above your level, or otherwise bypass gated content. 

"Who are you, who do not know your history?"

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I much rather FO3 speech

I much rather FO3 speech checks, as it kinda allows for keeping track/retry the dialogs in a future occasion down the road, sort of having to 'build a relationship' with that NPC xD

For example trying to get Doc Church in Megaton clinic to talk about the Replicated Men quest, or Leo's drug habit. I can keep going back to him after a day or two until I get him to talk, it is sort of like in real life, building a relationship and such. Ofc there are those speech checks you can't retry and must pass in the heat of the moment, but those are ok to depend on RNG (luck), it adds to the thrill and replay value.

Compulsive post editor and CEO for the ENDLESS WAVES OF BAD DOGGIE!!
Currently trying to get the FWE Wasteland Explorer bike to work in TTW =X

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Yep I like the F3 system of

Yep I like the F3 system of speech checks myself, it's great when you pass that 7% check. But I don't save scum either like some people do to pass them.

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Yeah. I can see the appeal, I

Yeah. I can see the appeal, I just wish there was more incentive to NOT save scum, beside immersion and role-playing. 

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