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TrickyVein
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The thing is, people don't

The thing is, people don't see ghost trees in any of the other wastelands which do have .dtl data. Blaming it on broken code is easy, but really the DC wasteland is an exception and not the rule. 

It may be inefficient to have to resort to regenerating tree lod data while the project is still in alpha, and that's too bad. We can try rolling additional LOD object data for trees into the atlas texture and see how that works, but it's not the preferred solution at this point. 

enneract
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I don't know how to more

I don't know how to more clearly explain this without becoming combative.

Regenerating tree lod *does not work*. ANY tree lod data generated with the CK suffers this bug. There are, in fact, no other worldspaces with tree lod data - seriously, go look, I couldn't find any, and if I'm just as happy to be wrong about this. The best you can do is just remove trees from the tree lod system by disabling their tree log flag, which appears to be what Chuck has been doing. There is a reason why the lod in TaleOfTwoWastelands.bsa is only like 10 files, while the tree lod for the wasteland in fo3 (or, say, vurts) is like 80 files. This gives the illusion that the bug is solved by merely lowering its incidence, while retaining enough LODs to make it not immediately obvious that most trees dont have them.

TrickyVein
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There's no reason to be

There's no reason to be combative. I'm sorry you feel that way. 

This isn't the creation kit, it's the GECK.

The following worldspaces include .dtl tree lod data (which do not have issues):

From Anchorage

  • dlc02glacier
  • dlc02overlook

Broken Steel

  • dlc03relaystation
  • dlc03adamsafb

Point Lookout

  • dlc04pointlookout
  • dlc04bog

Let me know if I missed any. It's not that people don't understand you, they just don't agree. Or maybe I just don't agree, I can't speak for everyone. Nobody is trying to make this problem more difficult than it already is.

delta534
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I'm not sure that Obsidian is

I'm not sure that Obsidian is fully responsible for all the issues that plague New Vegas. Fallout New Vegas was based on the same code base as Fallout 3 and Fallout 3 is plenty buggy and they did not have much time to fix all the bugs. The only reason I have object LOD working is because I am sick and board with nothing better to do that mess around with the geck. The texture atlas is different but it is still the same size.

enneract
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The only one of those that I

The only one of those that I can talk about is the point lookout worldspaces; and those definitely have this bug. Again, it is less noticeable because most trees dont have LOD at all.


Incidentally, I was trying to say that I felt like you would interpret me as being combative, not that I wanted to become combative. Thanks for (apparently?) misinterpreting me, though!

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Can you post pics of this? I

Can you post pics of this? I haven't been to PL in quite some time and don't recall anyone complaining.

enneract
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Sure, in a few hours :)

Sure, in a few hours :)

enneract
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Point Lookout does not appear

Point Lookout does not appear to have valid LOD of any sort. The world is void outside of loaded cells. https://copy.com/piU1DYdPPtjfcAY1

Broken steel has many bad lods... https://copy.com/J8T9YdfSUu0CwpHO

as does operation anchorage (this one is more subtle due to a better match between LOD and full-detail) https://copy.com/EIpLUzDFAvHJOSTz


As I said. NONE of the the tree LODs work! Any which appear to work simply don't have LODs at all.

TrickyVein
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Thanks for posting those

Thanks for posting those screenshots. They're actually really informative for us, even if you don't know what's going on in them. 

This entire time you've been playing with a botched install. You didn't know it, and we didn't think to ask, but that's OK. Now we know. Try these things:

  • Follow a manual installation.
  • If you've already followed a manual installation, run the installer again and try another manual installation.
  • Provide your install log if you encounter the same bugs.

Until we can be confident that you've installed TTW successfully, virtually every point that you've made in this thread has to be seen as moot. It's just that you've been so forceful in asserting your own infallibility that we lost track of following basic troubleshooting guidelines. It may turn out that the 2.6 installer is causing issues (like we've been saying this entire time and which we know to be true in certain cases), but don't worry. We plan to update in the future. 

enneract
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Please explain the manner in

Please explain the manner in which my install is botched?

delta534
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The good news is that

The good news is that generating Object LOD with trees is not that hard once all the necessary textures and meshes are extracted and the textures are converted to TGA with the alpha channel preserved. It's just a matter of creating the LOD mesh for the tree, making sure all the textures fix within a 2048x1024 area, checking the has LOD mesh on the static and then run Generate Object LOD.

TJ
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enneract wrote:Please explain

enneract wrote:

Please explain the manner in which my install is botched?

In case you haven't noticed Point Lookout does not appear to have valid LOD of any sort. Your install is screwed up. It's not just trees.

enneract
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Not a botched install.

Not a botched install.

comparison of installed files to the content of Point Lookout - Main.bsa from steam.

http://pastebin.com/NpqhRzE8

Risewild
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I don't know anything about

I don't know anything about LOD but I am good at testing, so here are a couple screens from PL in my game, I don't know if they are relevant to this discussion but I am jus trying to help solving this issue anyway I can.

This is how it looks for me in Point Lookout, just vanilla TTW with the exception of the DarnUINV mod posted on this site:

Hope this helps anyone in any way.

enneract
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Reinstalled - Install Log,

Reinstalled - Install Log, Screenshot

As I expected, though, that problem was entirely tangential - not a data point for the problem at hand at all, simply the absence of data.

Example of broken Tree LOD in Point Lookout (This might be leaves, I'll be honest. Needs more investigation)

Example of broken Tree LOD in Operation Anchorage

Example of broken Tree LOD in Broken Steel

 

Risewild
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I checked in TTW (only the

I checked in TTW (only the Point Lookout yet, didn't check any other DLC areas) and it happens in my game just as it happens in yours and I also couldn't tell if it were leaves or bad LOD, so I decided to follow your advice and investigate more. I played the original vanilla Fallout 3 version of the game I have installed (GFWL GoTY Disk version) and it is like that in Fallout 3 too, which surprised me a bit because I had never noticed how horrible the trees in PL are seen close enough.

Here a couple of screens from the original Fallout 3 Point Lookout game, I took one for each type of tree (skinny and leafy wide):

So I guess Point Lookout in TTW has no LOD issues for some reason .

Tomorrow I will check Anchorage and Broken Steel using the Fallout 3 game instead of TTW again and compare them with the pics supplied .

Again I hope this helps and I am not just wasting my time .

EDIT: I still had time to test Operation Anchorage and again the trees look like in that pic were all of the Fallout 3 DLC trees bad like that? I really can't remember them being like that in the past...

delta534
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Point Lookout does not seem

Point Lookout does not seem to have any Tree LOD issues on my end. The trees are ugly but that seems to be as designed. 

Also if anyone wants to test my attempt at putting trees in Object LOD tell me and I will post it. It has to be installed after any texture replacers otherwise it will look wrong and there are still a few minor issues with it but based on my testing it does not break anything.

TJ
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Post it. It could be useful.

Post it. It could be useful.

delta534
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Alright, here it is. It

Alright, here it is. It contains a hack to prevent the TreeLOD from appearing to make testing it easier. The esp is just a reference which shows the needed changes to get trees in object LOD. 

File Attachments: 

enneract
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It really does appear that I

It really does appear that I'm fundamentally wrong in the assertion that 'Tree LOD is broken, full stop'. I was able to find one tree with a broken LOD in PL upon further examination, but it doesn't fit my hypothesis which requires that *every* tree with a lod be broken.

I stand by the assertion that simply regenerating LOD in the CW doesn't work. Going to try to figure out what the difference between OA\PL and CW\BS worldspaces is, hopefully this will lead to a solution.

delta534
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After messing with Point

After messing with Point Lookout's tree LOD to see if I can figure out why it works, I have come to the conclusion that those  tree LOD files were not made with GECK.  The Fallout 3 Geck and the Fallout NV Geck creates roughly the same tree LOD files. Both are screwed up in game.  

enneract
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delta534 wrote:

delta534 wrote:

After messing with Point Lookout's tree LOD to see if I can figure out why it works, I have come to the conclusion that those  tree LOD files were not made with GECK.  The Fallout 3 Geck and the Fallout NV Geck creates roughly the same tree LOD files. Both are screwed up in game.  

So, uh, the Tree LOD system isn't broken, the GECK just generates bad data? 

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The GECK generating bad LOD

The GECK generating bad LOD data is a very common occurrence.  There are other LOD tools and some ways to configure the GECK for generating LOD.  I don't know the specifics but a few google searches should reveal them.

delta534
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Yes, the GECK does not

Yes, the GECK does not produce the right data. It's valid data, it just does not work right.  This also applies to the GECK for Fallout 3 so the issue is something that's been around for a while and can be blamed on Bethesda. If I could figure out the treelist file and the file naming scheme for the files I could generate the right data with FNVEdit. Also if I could figure out what is wrong with the geck generated data I could fix it with FNVEdit as well.

delta534
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Alright I think I have got

Alright I think I have got the DC Wasteland Tree LOD working and I want some other testers to be sure.  The attached file should contain everything needed work. The .pas file is the FNVEdit script I used to fix GECK generated LOD files and does not need to be installed if you have no idea what a FNVEdit script is. If the issue still persists, open up the console and get me the formID of the tree so I can see if I can figure out the issue.

File Attachments: 

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Confirmed to work here, with

Confirmed to work here, with NMC's Largest packs too.

delta534
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I did do some minor testing

I did do some minor testing with the TTW version of Vurt's trees and my fix, and I was able to get it working once I regenerated the Tree LOD files in the geck so that the files would pass the small bit of validation in the patcher script. Feel free to do whatever with the files but the script itself still needs some more work.

Changing the formid part in the Tree LOD Data for any reference that has data not in the core master file, FalloutNV.esm in TTW's case, to have a load order of 1 does seem to be the fix for some odd reason. For scientific purposes I did a small scale test of fix with some known ghost trees in  Fallout 3 and its engine caused by the unoffical patch and it worked there as well. 

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Still works great for NMC I

Still works great for NMC I just copied all the files and put it my data folder. It got rid of the doubling of trees up close.

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Great to know that this bug

Great to know that this bug was finally solved! This was really a serious issue for me. I had to play withot LOD trees and accept one of the following two possible drawbacks:

1) or popping trees in front of me;

2) or FPS drops if I extended the full LOD tree visibility range.

This really improves the game feeling for me. I really think that it shall be added to the fixes at the end of TTW download page!!!

Thank you!

JD

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Somebody who's used this (or

Somebody who's used this (or is able to on a fresh install of TTW) please post the resulting files so that we can get them added to TTW. Thanks.

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Works like a charm for me

Works like a charm for me till now, will post references soon! ^^

 

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I found the "double" trees

I found the "double" trees LOD issue looking at North of the "WKML Broadcast Station"
This issue is not present to the South of the same location.

Appliying this fix "lodfix.zip" fixes the issue.

TTW version 273a
No other meshes or mods.

Regards.

RoyBatty
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This should be fixed by the

This should be fixed by the "Missing Tree" fix I uploaded, can you try it?

 

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